[I.CHAIRMAN’S OPENING STATEMENT, ROLL CALL ]
          [00:00:10]
          REGULARLY SCHEDULED PUBLIC WORK SESSION MEETING OF THE PLANNING BOARD OF THE TOWNSHIP OF MAHWAH. 
          ADEQUATE NOTICE OF THIS MEETING HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY PUBLICATION IN THE RECORD AND THE RIDGEWOOD NEWS. COPIES OF THE AGENDA HAVE BEEN FORWARDED TO THE TOWNSHIP CLERK AND POSTED ON THE MUNICIPAL WEBSITE AND THE PLANNING AND ZONING BULLETIN BOARD. PLEASE BE ADVISED THAT THIS MEETING IS BEING RECORDED AND STREAMED ON THE TOWNSHIP OF MAHWAH LIVE VIDEO PAGE. WE HAVE A COUPLE OF EXITS IN CASE OF AN EMERGENCY. THERE ARE ALL IN THE BACK OF THE ROOM, AND I BELIEVE THERE'S ONE UP HERE ON MY LEFT. YOUR RIGHT. OKAY. PLEASE STAND FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. TRACY, WOULD YOU LEAD US, PLEASE? YES. MADAM CHAIRWOMAN, I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS. ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. OKAY. CAN WE PLEASE HAVE A ROLL CALL? MAYOR WYSOCKI, MR. IRVIN HERE, MISS GALLO HERE. MR. GREWAL, MR. JANKOWSKI HERE, MISS MICELLI HERE. MR. MILLER HERE, MR. O'LEARY, MR. MONTROY. MR. REINERTSON. THANK YOU. OKAY. WE DO NOT HAVE ANY BILLS TO PRESENT TONIGHT, BUT WE DO HAVE 
          [III.APPROVAL OF MINUTES]
SOME MINUTES. I'D LIKE TO. IF THERE ARE NO COMMENTS. I'D LIKE TO ASK FOR A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FOR JULY 27TH MEETING. MOTION TO APPROVE. SECOND. OKAY. MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL? THAT WAS GEORGE AND MR. MILLER. YES. SORRY. THANK YOU, MR. ERVIN. YES. MISS JANKOVSKY YES. MISS MICELLI. YES. MR. MILLER. YES. THANK YOU. OKAY. WE ALSO HAVE A RESOLUTION FOR 
          [IV. 1. Docket 699 - Toll Mahwah LLC ]
MEMORIALIZATION DOCKET 699, TOLL MAHWAH, LLC. MADAM CHAIRWOMAN, THIS IS THE RESOLUTION. FRANKLY, WE HAD IT DONE JUST PRIOR TO THE LAST MEETING, BUT THE APPLICANT'S ATTORNEY WAS HAVING A ONCE OVER. WE ALL UNDERSTAND THERE'S SIGNIFICANT AFFORDABLE HOUSING COMPONENT HERE. THE DOCUMENT, WHICH WE'RE REQUESTING THAT YOU ADOPT TONIGHT, WAS IS SUBSTANTIALLY THE ONE THAT WAS CIRCULATED ON FRIDAY. TODAY I RECEIVED A COUPLE OF COMMENTS FROM DARLENE, OUR PLANNER, WHICH OF COURSE, I INCORPORATED. AND I CAN TELL YOU THERE ARE JUST A COUPLE OF SENTENCES HERE AND THERE. SO WHAT WE ARE LOOKING TO ADOPT THIS EVENING IS A SLIGHT AMENDMENT TO THE ONE THAT WAS CIRCULATED ON FRIDAY. ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? SEEING NONE, IS THERE A MOTION PLEASE TO ADOPT MOTION TO MOVE SECOND. OKAY TRACY. AND ROLL CALL, PLEASE. MR. ERVIN. YES, MR. JANKOWSKI, I DON'T BELIEVE I WAS HERE. 
          MISS MICELLI. YES. MR. MILLER? YES. THANK YOU. OKAY. WE ARE NOW GOING TO OPEN TO THE PUBLIC MOTION TO OPEN. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ALL IN FAVOR, I IF ANYBODY WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS THE BOARD WITH ANY QUESTIONS THAT ARE NOT ON THE AGENDA TONIGHT, ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE DOCKET. 684 CARMAX APPLICATION. NOW IS YOUR TIME. OKAY. SEEING NOBODY HERE. 
          MOTION TO CLOSE. CLOSE. OKAY. MR. ERVIN AND MISS JANKOWSKI. OKAY. VERY GOOD. NOW WE WILL 
          [VI.1. Docket 684 - CarMax Auto Superstores, Inc]
OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING FOR DOCKET 684, THE CARMAX AUTO SUPERSTORE SUPERSTORES. AND THAT IS CONTINUED FROM AUGUST 10TH. SO THIS WOULD BE OUR THIRD EVENING OF TESTIMONY. 
          COUNCIL. GOOD EVENING. YES, MR. MAYOR, THANK YOU SO MUCH. I'M SORRY I INTERRUPTED YOUR. HELLO. 
          WHY DON'T YOU PUT YOUR NAME ON THE RECORD AND GO FOR IT? GOOD EVENING, MADAM CHAIRWOMAN. 
          MEMBERS OF THE BOARD, ANDREW KOHUT, CO LAW FIRM OF WELLS, JAWORSKI AND LIEBERMAN, 12 IN PARAMUS, NEW JERSEY, HERE ON BEHALF OF CARMAX. OKAY. WELCOME. THANK YOU. BEFORE I GET STARTED, I JUST WANTED TO COVER A FEW HOUSEKEEPING ITEMS FROM THE LAST MEETING. ONE IS I JUST SUBMITTED AN EXHIBIT LIST TO MISS WOOD AND MR. MADAIO. IN THAT EXHIBIT LIST, I HAVE 
          [00:05:01]
INCLUDED AN A TEN, WHICH HAD NOT BEEN MARKED YET. LAST WEEK WE SUBMITTED TO THE BOARD IN AN EFFORT TO CONTINUE TO GIVE THE BOARD AS MUCH INFORMATION, MUCH CONCISE INFORMATION AS POSSIBLE, WE SUBMITTED A A REVISED WARRANTY DOCUMENT AND HIGHLIGHTED THE SERVICES THAT ARE GOING TO OCCUR ON SITE. SO NOW YOU HAVE A SPECIFIC LIST OF WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO ON SITE AND WHAT WE'RE NOT GOING TO DO ON SITE. SO WE WANTED TO GET THAT MARKED INTO EVIDENCE. I HAVE EXTRA COPIES OF SOMEONE DIDN'T SEE IT, BUT I'D LIKE TO MARK THAT AS A TEN, IF YOU DON'T MIND. OF COURSE. SO THAT WOULD BE WHAT WAS CIRCULATED EARLIER THIS WEEK. AND FOR THE BOARD MEMBERS, IT'S THE SAME WARRANTY DOCUMENT WHICH WE PREVIOUSLY SEEN. BUT IF YOU LOOK ON PAGE TWO, IT APPEARS THAT THERE'S HIGHLIGHTED SECTIONS, AND WE'RE GOING TO CALL THAT INDEPENDENTLY A TEN. SO AT THIS POINT. A THREE COULD BE DISREGARDED. IT'S NO LONGER OF ANY MOMENT. SO ARE WE WITH THAT. LEAVE IT. BUT JUST JUST FOR THE BOARD'S EDIFICATION, THIS IS THE DOCUMENT. NOW, IF THE BOARD APPROVES THIS APPLICATION, THIS IS WHAT IT WILL BE BASED ON. OKAY. SO WE'RE REFERRING TO A TEN. AND I'M GOING TO JUST NOTE IN THE LIST THAT IT REPLACES A THREE. OKAY. THEN WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO WHAT I PROPOSE TO DO TONIGHT IS I'M GOING TO HAVE TWO WITNESSES COME UP. I'M GOING TO HAVE WHO'S THE PROFESSIONAL PLANNER. 
          HE HAS A LITTLE BIT OF A SCHEDULING CONFLICT. SO I'M GOING TO LET HIM GO. WHILE THEY USUALLY GO AT THE END, I'M GOING TO HAVE HIM GO NEXT. AND THEN I HAVE NICHOLAS KENNEDY FROM STONEFIELD ENGINEERING. HE'S AN EXPERT IN TRAFFIC, SO HE'S GOING TO GO OVER THE A LOT OF THE TRAFFIC INFORMATION THAT YOU GUYS HAD FROM LAST FROM LAST MONTH. I'LL JUST HIGHLIGHT A COUPLE OF THINGS BEFORE HE COMES UP. JUST SO THE BOARD HAS SOME HEADS UP WITH REGARD TO THE SERVICE CENTER, PARTICULARLY, WE'VE ALREADY DISCUSSED PRIOR TESTIMONY. 
          BRADLEY ESCOBAR, TWO TEXTS ON SITE, 2 TO 5 REPAIRS PER DAY, SOME ADDITIONAL INFORMATION WHICH YOU WILL HEAR. EVERYTHING IS BY APPOINTMENT ONLY. THERE ARE NO WALK INS. SO I BELIEVE THAT IT MAY HAVE BEEN THE CHAIRMAN HAD SOME CONCERNS ABOUT HOW MANY CARS ARE GOING TO BE DRIVING UP JUST TO BE SERVICED THROUGHOUT THE DAY. THE ANSWER IS HOPEFULLY NEXT TO NONE. IF SOMEONE SHOWS UP, MAKE AN APPOINTMENT. IF SOMEONE CALLS IN THAT DOESN'T HAVE AN APPOINTMENT, MAKE AN APPOINTMENT. EVERYTHING WILL BE DONE BY APPOINTMENT. SO I THINK BETWEEN THE NUMBER OF TEXTS, THE NUMBER OF SERVICES. SERVICES, SERVICING HAPPENING THROUGHOUT THE DAY AND THE APPOINTMENT ONLY KIND OF GIVES YOU AN IDEA OF THE INTENSITY OF THE USE. CANDIDLY, THEY DON'T HAVE A SPECIFIC NUMBER FOR THIS INFORMATION IN-HOUSE TRIED TO OBTAIN IT. THEY JUST IT'S JUST NOT SOMETHING THEY THEY REGULARLY KEEP TRACK OF. BUT I THINK THIS GIVES YOU A BETTER IDEA OF WHAT THE INTENSITY IS GOING TO BE LIKE AT SITE. THE ONLY OTHER QUESTION THERE, I BELIEVE, MADAM CHAIRWOMAN, YOU MAY HAVE ASKED WHAT HAPPENS WITH CARS THAT COME TO THE SITE AND ARE NOT CAN'T BE SERVICED ON SITE. THAT'S WHY THEY MAKE APPOINTMENTS. YOU MAKE THE APPOINTMENT, YOU TELL THEM WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE CAR. THEY SAY YOU CAN'T COME HERE. WE DON'T DO THAT. YOU'RE NOT ON THE HIGHLIGHTED LIST. GO TO OUR WAYNE LOCATION, OR YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GO TO A THIRD PARTY AND WE'LL WORK THAT OUT. AS DISCUSSED, DESCRIBED A WEEK OR TWO AGO. AND WITH THAT, LET'S SAY A CAR COMES FOR A REASON. A AND AT THE SITE, REASON B DISCOVERS THERE'S SOMETHING THAT THEY DON'T DO ON SITE THAT'S STILL THE SAME ONE TRIP IN, ONE TRIP OUT, BECAUSE NOW IT'S LEAVING THE SITE AND GOING TO ANOTHER LOCATION. SO IT'S THE SAME AS IF SOMEONE CAME TO PICK UP THE CAR AND LEFT TO, TO, TO TAKE HOME. SO THE POINT OF THE TESTIMONY YOU'LL HEAR FROM MR. KENNEDY IS THAT ANY CONCERN ABOUT ADDITIONAL SERVICE WORK IS DE MINIMIS AT BEST. IT'S FROM FROM A TRAFFIC COMPONENT, FROM A TRAFFIC STANDARD. SO WE WANTED TO GIVE YOU THAT HIGHLIGHT THAT INFORMATION. AND THE LAST THING THAT WE WANT TO DISCUSS TOWARDS THE END, AFTER YOU HEAR ALL THE TESTIMONY, IS OUR CLIENTS WENT BACK AND, YOU KNOW, AFTER THE HEARING, THEY WENT THROUGH THE TESTIMONY THAT WAS GIVEN, THE THINGS THAT WERE AGREED TO. AND CANDIDLY, THE, THE LOGISTICS DEPARTMENT WITHIN CARMAX HAS HAD A LOT MORE INVOLVEMENT WITH THIS LOCATION THAN THEY DO NATIONWIDE, BECAUSE THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF LOGISTICS QUESTIONS. SO WE WANT TO GIVE YOU THE ANSWERS WHEN GOING THROUGH THE INFORMATION. IN TOTAL, THEY ARE REQUESTING THAT ON SUNDAYS IT REMAIN 8 TO 8 TO NOON. YEAH, NOON TO EIGHT. IT REMAINS SIX VEHICLES TOTAL, BUT THEY'LL BE ABLE TO DROP OFF AND PICK UP WITHIN THOSE SIX VEHICLES. NUMBER OF VEHICLES WON'T CHANGE IF A TRUCK COMES 
          [00:10:04]
WITH ZERO VEHICLES TO DROP OFF AND PICKS UP SEVEN VEHICLES TO LEAVE, THAT'S ONE TRIP YOU DON'T GET CREDIT FOR NOT BRINGING ANY CARS ON SITE. SO IT'S WE'RE NOT CHANGING ANYTHING, JUST THE ABILITY TO DROP OFF CARS JUST FOR LOGISTICS PURPOSES AND MAKES THINGS A LOT EASIER. I'M SORRY, COULD YOU JUST REPEAT THAT ONE MORE TIME? SURE. SUNDAYS WE HAD AGREED TO SIX TRUCK, SIX TRUCK TRIPS. WE AGREED TO NOON TO 8 P.M. NO ACTIVITY BEFORE THAT, NO ACTIVITY AFTER THAT. THAT'S NOT CHANGING. OKAY. THAT'S STAYING EXACTLY THE SAME. OKAY. 
          WE HAD ORIGINALLY TESTIFIED THAT IT WAS GOING TO BE PICK UP ONLY PICK UP THE VEHICLES ONLY FROM SITE. LOGISTICS NOW IS GETTING A MORE GLOBAL VIEW OF THE SITUATION. AND THEY'RE ASKING THAT WITHIN THOSE SIX TRIPS, THEY BE ALLOWED TO DROP OFF AT THE SAME TIME. SO IF THEY COME, LET'S SAY THEY BRING NINE VEHICLES, THEY LEAVE WITH NINE VEHICLES. THAT'S ONE TRIP, ONE ONE TRUCK TRIP. IF THEY COME WITH ZERO VEHICLES, LEAVE WITH NINE VEHICLES. THAT'S THE SECOND TRIP FOR THE DAY. SO IT'S NOT GOING TO ADD ANY TRUCK TRIPS. IT'S JUST THE ABILITY TO LOGISTICALLY PICK UP. WE'RE THERE. LET US PICK UP THE CARS AND THIS WAY IT HELPS WITH THE WITH THE LOGISTICS OF THE SITE, BUT THERE'S NO CHANGE TO THE OTHERWISE, THE INTENSITY OF WHAT WE'RE REQUESTING. TRUCK ARRIVES 6 P.M. OFF PROPERTY. THEY CANNOT. THERE CAN BE NO UNLOADING OR LOADING AFTER 8:00. THEY GOT TO BE. THEY GOT TO LEAVE. OKAY. YEAH. AND THAT WOULD BE I'M SORRY. THAT WOULD BE SUBJECT TO LAW REGULATIONS, 100% STATE REGULATIONS. 
          EVERYTHING'S SUBJECT TO THE STATE NOISE, EVERYTHING LIKE THAT. WELL, I MEAN, FOR NOT ALLOWED ON SUNDAYS BECAUSE WHEN I RESEARCHED IT, THERE'S THE BLUE LAWS AND THEN THERE'S STATE LAWS THAT SUPERSEDE THE BERGEN COUNTY LAWS. MY, MY UNDERSTANDING. AND AGAIN, THIS I, I'M DOING THE RESEARCH ALSO, BUT IS THAT THERE'S A STATE STATUTE THAT IMPLEMENT THAT ALLOWS THE COUNTY TO HAVE THE BLUE LAWS, UNLESS IT'S FOR SPECIFICALLY CAR DROP OFFS AND PICKUPS. OH, THEN I'LL HAVE TO I'LL HAVE TO RESEARCH THAT. I WOULD DEFINITELY LOOK INTO THAT. 
          I APPRECIATE THAT, I MEAN, I'M NOT A PROFESSIONAL, BUT THAT'S WHAT I FOUND ONLINE. IT'S. THE STATE SPECIFICALLY SAYS EVEN IF THE STORE IS NOT OPEN, YOU CANNOT DROP OFF OR PICK UP VEHICLES ON A SUNDAY. I WILL LOOK IF THAT'S UNLESS I MISUNDERSTOOD IT. NO, NO, I I'VE SAID FROM DAY ONE, WE'RE SUBJECT TO WHATEVER I WROTE THE STATUTE DOWN. I HAVE TO GIVE IT TO YOU LATER. I'LL GIVE IT TO YOU. HAPPY TO REVIEW THAT. OTHERWISE I'M. IT'S GOING TO REQUIRE CORRESPONDENCE WITH EITHER COUNTY COUNCIL OR THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF LAW OR THE STATE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THE CORRECT ANSWER IS. IF WE VOTE ON THIS TONIGHT AND IT WOULD BE ALL SUBJECT TO BEING ALLOWED ON SUNDAY, ANYTHING YOU DO WOULD BE SUBJECT TO THE MOMENT. IT'S NOT ALLOWED. THAT WOULD JUST BE NULL AND VOID. EVEN IF WE VOTE YES, MY MY CLIENT FULLY UNDERSTANDS THAT THIS BOARD DOESN'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY OR JURISDICTION TO GRANT AN EXCEPTION TO A COUNTY OR STATE STATUTE. WHAT IS THE STATUTE YOU'RE REFERRING TO? JUST SO WE HAVE IT ON THE RECORD. WHILE WE'RE. YES. IF YOU IF YOU HAVE IT IN NEW JERSEY, STATUTE IS TWO C, AS IN CHARLES COLON THREE THREE DASH. THAT'S THE ONE THAT SAYS NO AUTO SALES PERIOD ON A SUNDAY, RIGHT? 2C2C COLON 33-26. AND THEN THERE'S A. THERE'S A SECONDARY ONE THAT SAYS TWO A COLON 171-1.1. AND I PRINTED OUT THE ACTUAL STATUTE IF YOU WANT TO READ IT. ALL RIGHT. AWESOME. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WE'LL CONTINUE TO LOOK AT THAT ONE QUESTION. AND I APOLOGIZE IF A TRACTOR TRAILER COMES IN WITH VEHICLES, DROPS THEM AND PICKS UP DROP SIX AND PICKS UP SIX, THAT'S STILL ONE TRUCK. ONE TRIP, ONE TRUCK. OKAY, SO WE'RE COUNTING TRUCKS, NOT MOVEMENTS. SIX. YES. SIX TRUCKS. ABSOLUTELY. OKAY. FAIR ENOUGH. OKAY. UNLESS THE BOARD HAS ANY QUESTIONS FOR ME, I'D LIKE TO CALL MY FIRST WITNESS. QUICK QUESTION FOR YOU. SURE. 
          DURING THE WEEK, MONDAY THROUGH SATURDAY. YES. NO TRUCKS AFTER WHAT TIME WAS THAT AGAIN? MIDNIGHT. OR WAS IT 11 OR 10? I HAVE IT DOWN. JUST GIVE ME ONE MOMENT. NO ACTIVITY INCLUDING DELIVERIES FROM FROM. I HAVE 12 A.M. TO 7 A.M. 12 TO 7. ALL RIGHT. NOW QUESTION. YEAH. TOW TRUCKS BRINGING CARS IN WITH THE BEEPING ALARMS. YOU KNOW, THE BACKUP ALARMS. HOW IS THAT GOING TO FALL INTO PLAY WITH AFTER HOURS? I, I DON'T I DON'T KNOW, YOU MEAN FOR THE SERVICE CENTER? YEAH. I MEAN, IF SOMEONE'S CAR BREAKS DOWN, YOU KNOW, THEY GET TOWED IN AT 2:00 IN THE MORNING. THANK YOU. MY, MY, MY INSTINCT IS, IS THAT SERVICE CENTER IN THOSE SITUATIONS, THE, THE, THE TOW TRUCKS HAVE TO TAKE THE CAR SOMEWHERE, RIGHT? THEY HAVE TO DELIVER IT. THEY HAVE TO BRING IT SOMEWHERE. IT'S PROBABLY AN EXCEPTION IF THEY BRING IT. IF THE SITE IS THE CARMAX LOCATION, I DON'T KNOW IF I HAVE CONTROL OVER, YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY IF 
          [00:15:04]
IT'S A GOVERNMENT RUN TOW TRUCK, YOU KNOW, GOVERNMENT APPROVED TOW TRUCK TO WHERE IT NEEDS TO DROP THE CAR OFF, YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD BE MARK. IS THERE ANY THOUGHT ON THAT? YEAH, I'M TRYING TO CONCEPTUALIZE IF IF THIS WERE A GAS STATION WHICH WOULD BE PERMITTED, COULD A TOW TRUCK DROP A VEHICLE THAT IT TOWS IF THERE WAS AN ACCIDENT ON ROUTE 17 AND THE MAHWAH POLICE DEPARTMENT CALLED THEIR TOWER. OR ARE WE SAYING THAT HE THEY CAN'T TOW THEM TO THIS LOCATION? I'M ASKING, I GUESS THE QUESTION OF THE NOISE WITH THE BACKUP ALARMS OF A TOW TRUCK. RIGHT. WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE WITH A TRAILER UNLOADING CARS AND A TOW TRUCK, BRINGING CARS OR A CAR? I THINK ONE OF THE MAIN CONCERNS IS, IS THAT CARMAX HAS NO ABILITY TO CONTROL THAT. IT'S A THIRD PARTY. IT'S A I GOT TO ASSUME IN MOST CASES IT'S A RANDOM TOW TRUCK WHO WAS CALLED BECAUSE THEY'RE ON THE LIST OF TOW TRUCKS AVAILABLE WITHIN A CERTAIN COMMUNITY, AND THEY BRING THE CAR WHERE THEY'RE TOLD, I DON'T SEE HOW MY CLIENT CAN CONTROL WHERE THAT TOW TRUCK GOES UNLESS THERE'S AN ORDINANCE IN PLACE THAT LIMITS THE HOURS A TOW TRUCK CAN CAN TAKE A TAKE A CAR IF I, IF I HAD A LINCOLN, IS IT IS THERE A LINCOLN OR A KIA? RIGHT. WE WE HAVE A KIA DEALERSHIP IN TOWN, RIGHT? IF I IF MY KIA STOPPED WORKING ON ROUTE 17 IN UPPER SADDLE RIVER AND THE UPPER SADDLE RIVER, POLICE CALLED THE TOW TRUCK OFF THEIR LIST AND I SAID, WELL, THERE'S A KIA DEALERSHIP ONLY A MILE UP. CAN YOU, YOU KNOW, DROP MY CAR AT THE KIA DEALERSHIP? I GENERALLY THINK THAT WOULD BE ALLOWED. 
          AND I DO SEE A DISTINCTION, ALTHOUGH WE CAN HONE THE DISTINCTION. I SEE A DISTINCTION BETWEEN ONE TOW TRUCK DELIVERING A VEHICLE TO A REPAIR SERVICE AND THE BUSINESS ENTERPRISE OF LOADING AND UNLOADING TRACTOR TRAILER TRUCKS FULL OF VEHICLES. SO I SEE THAT AS DIFFERENT, BUT IT MAY JUST BE A DIFFERENCE OF DEGREE, BUT I THINK A TOW TRUCK TO A REPAIR PLACE WOULD BE NORMAL IN ANY GAS STATION ON ROUTE 17, RIGHT? AM I DO WE THINK THAT SOUNDS CONSISTENT WITH OUR THINKING? SOMEWHAT. I THINK POLICE TOWING WOULD BE A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN CALLING A PRIVATE TOW COMPANY. MAYBE LIKE AN INDIVIDUAL MYSELF. IF I CALL UP TRIPLE A, I'M STUCK WITH TRIPLE A AND THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE IT WHERE I TELL THEM, RIGHT? POLICE TELL HIM THEY'RE GOING TO CALL WHOMEVER THE THE VENDOR THAT THE TOWN HAS CHOSEN. 
          AND THEY TYPICALLY HAVE THEIR OWN YARD THAT THEY BRING IT TO. THEY TAKE IT TO THEIR OWN YARD. 
          AND THEN YOU TAKE CARE OF FINDING THE THIRD PARTY TOWING COMPANY IN THE MORNING TO TAKE IT. THAT MAKES SENSE. ALL RIGHT. DO THE TRACTOR TRAILERS. IS THAT THE RIGHT WORD FOR CAR CARRIERS? I DON'T KNOW, DO THEY HAVE THE BACKUP BEEPING NOISE? DO THOSE DO THOSE? THEY DO OKAY. 
          OKAY. SO SO THEY'RE GOING TO NJDEP STATE STANDARDS FOR NOISE. NOISE I UNDERSTAND. OKAY. THANK YOU. I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY THAT. OKAY. I'M SORRY TO INTERRUPT YOU ONE MORE TIME. 
          SURE. I JUST HAD A QUICK QUESTION BECAUSE I WASN'T HERE LAST MEETING. I WATCHED THE VIDEO, BUT I WASN'T HERE. IF THEY'RE PICKING UP AFTER HOURS, ARE YOU GUYS PUTTING THOSE CARS IN THE REGULAR LOT ON THE TOP RIGHT WHERE LIKE CUSTOMERS PARK, OR DO THEY HAVE ACCESS TO THE GATE TO GET INSIDE THE WHIP AREA? MAYBE I MISSED IT WHEN I WAS WATCHING AFTER HOURS, AFTER 9:00, AFTER CARMAX CLOSES, LIKE YOUR SHOP CLOSES, YOUR STORE CLOSES, SOMEONE'S COMING. A TRUCK, CAR CARRIERS COMING TO PICK UP CARS. ARE YOU GUYS PUTTING THEM IN THE CUSTOMER LOT? YES. YOU'RE JUST LINING THEM UP FOR THEM TO PICK UP. THEY HAVE ACCESS TO THE KEYS SOMEWHERE. YEAH, THERE'S LIKE A LOCK BOX OR SOMETHING. IT'S ALL THE WAY DOWN. OKAY. YEAH. THEY HAVE, THEY HAVE INDIVIDUAL LOCK BOXES ON EACH WINDOW SO THAT SO THAT YOU DON'T HEAR THE BEEPING ALL DAY FOR PEOPLE TRYING TO FIND A CAR. SO THAT WOULD BE THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. THAT WOULD BE PREPPED BEFORE THEY COME BEFORE CLOSING TIME. YES. OKAY. YES. THAT WAS ALL I HAD. 
          THANKS. OKAY. YOU READY TO CALL YOUR FIRST WITNESS? OKAY, GREG. GOOD EVENING SIR. HOW ARE YOU? GOOD EVENING. WONDERFUL. I SEE YOU'RE HALFWAY THERE ALREADY. IF YOU'D STATE YOUR NAME, 
          [00:20:04]
PLEASE. IT'S CRAIG, CREIGH. RAN CAMP. RAHENKAMPRAHENKAMP, AND SPELL THE FIRST NAME AGAIN FOR ME, CREIGH. WONDERFUL. AND IF YOU'D RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND, DO YOU SOLEMNLY SWEAR OR AFFIRM THAT THE TESTIMONY YOU'LL OFFER THIS EVENING IS THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE JOB? AND SORRY ABOUT THAT. AND WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF YOUR TESTIMONY THIS EVENING? I AM A PROFESSIONAL PLANNER, ALTHOUGH THIS IS A LARGELY CONFORMING APPLICATION, SO THERE ARE ONLY A SMALL AMOUNT OF WORK FOR ME TO DO THIS EVENING. ALL RIGHT. AND SO YOU'RE A LICENSED PROFESSIONAL PLANNER. HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN SO LICENSED? I'VE BEEN IN THE FIELD FOR FIVE YEARS, LICENSED IN NEW JERSEY FOR 30. IT'S BEEN CONTINUOUSLY AND PRESENTLY VALID. AND HAVE YOU TESTIFIED BEFORE US OR BEFORE THE OTHER BOARD? IN THE MOST RECENT THING I'VE DONE IN MAHWAH IS THE DRW TRANSMISSION TOWER AND LINE. I THINK THE MOST SIGNIFICANT THING I DID IN MY WAS 35 YEARS AGO. I WORKED WITH RAMAPO LANDS AND THE DEDICATION OF MUCH OF THE OPEN SPACE IN THE NORTHWESTERN PART OF THE TOWN. OKAY, MADAM CHAIRWOMAN. YES. SOUNDS LIKE HE'S QUALIFIED. WE WILL ACCEPT YOUR CREDENTIALS. THANK YOU. OKAY. WONDERFUL. MR. VANCAMP, YOU HAVE REVIEWED ALL THE APPLICATION INFORMATION. YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THE TOWNSHIP'S ORDINANCES? I AM YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THE TOWNSHIP'S MASTER PLAN? YES. AND YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH THE RELIEF THAT'S BEING SOUGHT BY THIS APPLICATION TODAY? CORRECT. AND I'M FAMILIAR WITH THE USE HAVING WORKED ON, I THINK, ALL OF THE CARMAX APPLICATIONS IN NEW JERSEY OVER THE LAST DECADE, THAT WAS GOING TO BE MY LAST QUESTION. SO YOU BEAT ME TO IT? NO PROBLEM. WHY DON'T YOU THEN GO THROUGH WITH THE BOARD YOUR PLANNING TESTIMONY WITH REGARD TO THIS APPLICATION? YES. AND I'LL FURTHER SHORTEN MY TESTIMONY BY ADOPTING THE TESTIMONY OF MR. CHEN, THE CIVIL ENGINEER. HE WAS VERY GOOD AT DESCRIBING THE SITE, THE USES AROUND IT, AND IT DOESN'T GET ANY BETTER IF I SAY ALL THE THINGS HE JUST SAID. SO WE'LL SHORTEN THE EVENING BASED ON THAT. WE ARE IN THE B 40 ZONE. A PLANNER IS NOT GOING TO GET FAR WITHOUT IDENTIFYING THE ZONE THAT WE'RE IN, WHICH PERMITS THINGS LIKE WAREHOUSES, DISTRIBUTION TERMINALS, TERMINALS, A WIDE ARRAY OF COMMERCIAL AND LIGHT INDUSTRIAL USES. SO I THINK AS THINGS GO, THIS IS A ON THE LOWER SIDE OF INTENSITY OF ACTIVITIES THAT COULD HAVE OCCURRED WITHIN THE DISTRICT. OVERALL, AS YOU SAW FROM MR. CHEN'S PRESENTATION, WE MEET AND OFTEN EXCEED SETBACKS AND LANDSCAPING REQUIREMENTS. JAN WORKED TO PUT THE USES IN THE RIGHT PLACES ON THE LOT TO PROTECT THE EDGES AS BEST HE COULD, AND AS THE BOARD HAS EXPERIENCED, WE'VE TWEAKED THE APPLICATION TO REMOVE SOME OF THE VARIANCES, CONTROL THE LIGHTING, ADDING LANDSCAPING THAT I THINK IT MAKES A BETTER APPLICATION THAN WHEN WE STARTED, AND A SUITABLE ONE FOR THE SITE. WE HAVE TWO POINTS OF RELIEF THAT BEAR TALKING ABOUT FROM A PLANNING PERSPECTIVE. ONE THAT CAME UP AT THE LAST HEARING IS THAT OUR WALL AROUND OUR WORKING AREA, IF YOU WILL, IN THE CORNER OF THE PROPERTY, IS ON WHAT WE THINK OF AS THE SIDE, BUT COULD ARGUABLY BE DETERMINED TO BE THE FRONT OF WEST RAMAPO, PART OF THE RAMPING ACTIVITY AROUND ROUTE 17 IN THAT AREA. AND TO THE EXTENT THAT'S FRONT, OUR WALL IS HIGHER THAN YOU COULD HAVE IN A FRONT YARD. TESTIMONY FOR THAT IS EXTREMELY SIMPLE. 
          THERE'S AN EXTRA WIDE RIGHT OF WAY THAT HAS RESULTED FROM HISTORICAL ACCIDENT IN THAT AREA. IT'S HEAVILY AND MATURELY WOODED. IT'S VERY MUCH ABOVE THE LEVEL OF THE SITE. SO THAT ONE'S VIEW OF THE WALL IS NOT GOING TO BE PERCEIVED AS A HIGHER WALL IN A TYPICAL FRONT YARD. SO I THINK IT FITS IN REASONABLY. THE SECOND ONE WE ADVERTISED IS A VARIANCE, BUT IT'S ACTUALLY AN EXCEPTION. MR. DICKERSON CALLED THAT OUT AND I AGREE WITH HIM. IT'S IN THE DESIGN SECTION RATHER THAN ZONING. AND THIS RELATES TO OUR PARKING STALL SIZE IN OUR PRODUCT DISPLAY AREA. I'LL GO ONE FARTHER THAN MR. DICKERSON. I DON'T THINK WE ACTUALLY NEED RELIEF BECAUSE I DON'T THINK IT'S A PARKING LOT. I WON'T BEAT THIS UP TOO HARD, BECAUSE I THINK WE'VE ALREADY COME TO WORKING SOLUTIONS FOR THIS WITH MR. KELLY. BUT IT'S IMPORTANT FOR CARMAX. IT'S A CONSISTENT THEME FOR THEM. IN YOUR ORDINANCE. PARKING LOT THAT CONTAINS OFF STREET PARKING FOR SPACES ARE PROVIDED IN CONNECTION WITH AND LISTS A WHOLE SERIES OF USES. THESE ARE NOT BEING PROVIDED IN CONNECTION WITH AN OFFICER'S SHOPPING CENTER. THIS IS A SECTIONS 24 DASH, 3.7 A AND 22-22-6.2 IN YOUR ORDINANCE. 
          THE CORE POINT IS THAT THE STORAGE OF VEHICLES FROM THE LOT NEXT TO THE PLACE THAT PRODUCED IT, THE CAR MANUFACTURER AT TRANSIT STATIONS WHERE THEY'RE LOADING THEM ONTO TRAINS, TAKING THEM OFF, TAKING THEM OFF OF SHIPS, DELIVERING THEM TO DEALERS, AND AT THE END OF THEIR LIFE AT COMPANIES LIKE COPART OR IAA THAT ARE GETTING THE INSURANCE COMPANY FLEETS OR AFTER A HURRICANE, THEY GET IN ALL THE DAMAGED CARS. AND IN THESE 
          [00:25:03]
LOCATIONS, WE'RE ARRANGING THE VEHICLES TYPICALLY IN DIFFERENT WAYS THAN ONE WOULD IN A TRADITIONAL PARKING LOT. AND THESE ARE ALL PART OF THE PRODUCTION AND END OF LIFE OF THE VEHICLE, NOT TRADITIONALLY WHAT YOU WOULD CALL A PARKING LOT. YOUR ORDINANCE DOESN'T DEFINE PARKING LOT, BUT IT DOES DEFINE PARKING AREA TO BE USED FOR TEMPORARY STORAGE OF AUTOMOBILES AND OTHER VEHICLES IN ACCOMMODATION TO CLIENTS, CUSTOMERS OR EMPLOYEES. WHAT WE THINK OF AS THE PLACE WE PUT OUR CAR TEMPORARILY WHILE WE'RE SHOPPING OR GOING INTO AN OFFICE. MISSING FROM THAT IS THE STORAGE OF VEHICLES AS A GOOD SECTION 24-38 AND THE SUPPLEMENTAL USE REGULATIONS AT C1A EXPLICITLY PERMITS THE SALE OF AUTOMOBILES AND AUTOMOBILES AT BY AN AUTOMOBILE SALES DEALERSHIP AS A PERMITTED OUTDOOR SALE OF GOODS. SO WE'RE REFERRING TO VEHICLES IN THE CUSTODIANSHIP OF A DEALERSHIP AS GOODS, WHICH I THINK IS A DISTINCTION FROM BEING A TRADITIONAL PARKING LOT. I SAID I WOULDN'T BEAT IT TO DEATH, BUT GOING BACK THROUGH THE PLANNING LITERATURE, YOU FIND THIS THEME CONSISTENTLY SURVEY OF ZONING DEFINITIONS, PARKING SPACES, TEMPORARY PARKING OF PERSONAL VEHICLE. THESE ARE NOT YET PERSONAL VEHICLES. THESE ARE STILL GOODS. AND WHAT COMES UP IN THE LANGUAGE AND ORDINANCES IN THESE IN THESE SAMPLE BOOKS IS TEMPORARY, DAILY OR OVERNIGHT, A VERY DIFFERENT CONCEPT THAN BEING IN THE DISPLAY YARD OF A OF A DEALERSHIP. AND THE ONE WE IN NEW JERSEY USE THE MOST BECAUSE IT COMES FROM RUTGERS, HAS THE SAME SORT OF DEFINITION AN OFF STREET AREA THAT PROVIDES TEMPORARY STORAGE OF MOTOR VEHICLES. THIS IS A PARKING LOT. 
          COMMON PARKING LOTS MAY PROVIDE ACCESS TO OTHER USES SUCH AS DWELLINGS, OFFICES, STORES, AND SO ON. THEY ARE NOT DESIGNED FOR PERMANENT STORAGE. SO ESSENTIALLY, HAVING BEATEN THE POINT MORE THAN I PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE, IT'S OUR VIEW THAT BOTH OUR DISPLAY AREA AND OUR WORKING AREA ARE NOT TRADITIONALLY PARKING LOTS, SO WE WOULDN'T NEED RELIEF TECHNICALLY FROM THE PORTIONS OF YOUR ORDINANCE THAT REQUIRE PARKING LOT DESIGN. 
          NEVERTHELESS, IN WORKING WITH MR. KELLY, WE'VE AGREED TO STRIPE AND ORGANIZE OUR DISPLAY AREA AS IF IT WERE A LOT. HOWEVER, WE'RE USING NINE BY 18 SPACES, NINE FEET WIDE, 18 DEEP. 
          FIRST NINE BY 18 IS THE STANDARD SPACE UNDER THE RESIDENTIAL SITE IMPROVEMENT STANDARDS, SO IT IS A STANDARD PARKING SPACE THAT EVERYBODY IS USED TO DEALING WITH. AS A PLANNER, WE KEEP TEN BY 20 IN OUR CODES, PARTICULARLY WHERE WE ANTICIPATE THERE'S GOING TO BE A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF LOADING IN THE VEHICLE. SO IT'S FOOD STORES, HOME IMPROVEMENT STORES, BIG BOX STORES. YOUR ORDINANCE MAKES THAT KIND OF A DISTINCTION THAT THERE ARE PLACES THAT ARE ALLOWED TO GO NINE BY 18, BUT YOU HAVE A DEFAULT THAT IF YOU'RE NOT SPECIFICALLY ENUMERATED, THEY GET TO USE NINE BY 18, YOU'VE GOT TO DEFAULT TO THE TEN BY 20. 
          SO WE'RE CAUGHT BY THAT DEFAULT HERE. I WOULD SAY THE LARGER SIZE DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE IN A LOT. THAT IS EXPLICITLY ONLY DRIVEN ONLY HAS DRIVERS THAT ARE PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS. AND BY THAT I DON'T MEAN THAT THEY'RE RACE CAR DRIVERS, BUT THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE BEING WHO ARE EMPLOYEES, WHO ARE BEING PAID FOR BEING REASONABLY GOOD DRIVERS IN MOVING VEHICLES IN AND OUT OF A STANDARD RESIDENTIAL SPACE WITH NO LOADING GOING ON. SO I WOULD SUGGEST TO YOU THAT THIS IS THE KIND OF PRACTICAL DIFFICULTY, BETTER ZONING, ALTERNATIVE, EFFICIENT USE OF LAND THAT ARE THE FOUNDATION OF AN EXCEPTION UNDER THE MUNICIPAL LAND USE LAW. SO I THINK NINE BY 18 WORKS, WE HAVE LAID IT OUT TO LOOK LIKE A PARKING LOT, EVEN THOUGH WE MAKE THAT DISTINCTION, OUR PROCESSING AREA IN THE UPPER LEFT HAND CORNER IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT. AND HERE MR. CHAN AGREED THAT WE WILL PROVIDE MR. KELLY WITH A PLAN USING STRIPING THAT WOULD SHOW THE MAXIMUM CAPACITY OF THAT AREA TO HOLD VEHICLES, AND WE'RE HAPPY TO DO THAT. AND THAT'LL BE OUR SPEED LIMIT. YOU CAN'T HAVE MORE CARS THAN COULD FIT IN IT IN A TRADITIONAL PARKING ARRANGEMENT. WE'RE ALSO PROVIDING CLEARLY MARKED FIRE LANES. SO WHATEVER'S GOING ON IN THERE, THE FIRE TRUCKS CAN GET THROUGH. THERE'S A PLACE FOR THEM TO DEPLOY. WHAT WE'RE NOT COMMITTING TO DO IS ACTUALLY USE THAT AREA IN THE WAY IN WHICH THIS THEORETICAL STRIPING PLAN FOR CAPACITY HAS BEEN CREATED. AS YOU'VE ALREADY HEARD, IN TERMS OF LOADING TRUCKS, THE ACTUAL DRIVERS ON SITE MAY ORGANIZE CARS NEAR THE GATE, OUTSIDE OF THE FIRE LANE IN SEQUENCE, AS IF THEY WOULD GO ON THE TRUCK, NOT NECESSARILY IN WEAR. LOTS ON THAT SPACE MAY BE WHEN A CAR CARRIER IS DROPPING OFF. THEY MAY COME THROUGH THE GATE AND GO TAKE THOSE CARS TO A TEMPORARY SPOT FOR A MOMENT AS THEY'RE LOADING UP THE OTHERS AND THEN CATCH THEIR BREATH AND PUT THEM IN THE APPROPRIATE PLACES. SO DURING THE DAY, THINGS ARE GOING TO BE HAPPENING IN THAT SPACE. IT'S A, YOU KNOW, LOADING AND LOGISTICS AREA, NOT MEANT TO BE IN A TRADITIONAL PARKING LAYOUT. 
          THERE WILL BE CARS, FOR EXAMPLE, FROM SERVICE. IF THEY WANT TO PUT IT SOMEPLACE, THEY'LL PUT IT AS IF IT WERE PARKING IN A PARKING SPACE AGAINST ONE OF THE WALLS. SO IT MAKES SENSE TO PROVIDE MR. KELLY WITH THAT EXHIBIT. THAT PUTS A SPEED LIMIT ON IT. BUT IN TERMS OF OPERATION, WE WANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE A ZONING OFFICER SAY THAT 
          [00:30:02]
CAR IS NOT LINED UP WITH A STRIPE, BECAUSE THAT'S JUST NOT THE WAY THAT SPACE WORKS. IT'S A FLEXIBLE OPERATING AREA, AND WE RECOGNIZE THAT THE CAP ON CAPACITY AND THERE WILL BE A FIRE LANE THAT IS ENVIABLE. NO VEHICLES CAN BE IN THAT. SO THERE'S ALWAYS ACCESS THROUGH IT. AND TO DEPLOY IF THERE IS A FIRE, BUT THE AREA IS OUTSIDE OF THAT REQUIRE A CERTAIN OPERATIONAL FLEXIBILITY. AND AGAIN, THIS IS IN THE PRACTICAL DIFFICULTIES CATEGORY FOR A DESIGN EXCEPTION. BUT WHAT DEVIATION ARE YOU SPEAKING TO. THE DEVIATION IS IF YOU THINK IT'S A PARKING LOT AND CARS HAVE TO PARK IN IT AS IF IT'S A PARKING LOT, AS OPPOSED TO A LOGISTICS OPERATION AREA AS WE ENVISION IT. SO I DON'T THINK WE NEED AN EXCEPTION, BUT WE WANT EVERYONE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THAT SPACE, WHAT'S HAPPENING. EXACTLY. AND WE'VE AGREED TO SHOW A PARKING LOT LAYOUT NOT AS A CONDITION OF APPROVAL, BUT IN WORKING WITH MR. KELLY SO THAT THERE'S SOME OPERATIONAL LIMITS ON WHAT CAN HAPPEN. BUT WHAT'S ACTUALLY HAPPENING IN THAT SPACE IS A BIT MORE DYNAMIC. SO, MR. KELLY, IS THAT AGREEABLE TO YOU TO HAVE THE STRIPES THERE, BUT THEN NOT FOLLOW THE STRIPES AND USE IT IN A DIFFERENT MANNER? NOT NOT ENTIRELY. YOU KNOW, WE I'M OKAY WITH THEM NOT STRIPING THE LOT WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT THEY'RE GOING TO FOLLOW THE PARKING PLAN THAT THEY'RE GOING TO PROVIDE TO ME. SO I DON'T WANT SOMETHING THAT, HEY, WE CAN PARK 40 CARS THERE, BUT WE'RE NOT GOING TO PARK THEM LIKE THIS. YOU KNOW, I EXPECT THEM TO FOLLOW WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO PROVIDE. THE REALITY IS IF THEY'RE GOING TO PROVIDE, IF THEY'RE GOING TO PARK 40 CARS IN THERE, THEY WOULD HAVE TO BE IN SOMETHING LIKE THE PARKING LOT LAYOUT. THE REALITY IS THAT THERE ARE LESS LIKELY TO BE THAT MANY VEHICLES IN IT AND MORE FLEXIBLY USED. THAT'S FINE. WE JUST DON'T WANT VEHICLES PARKED IN A HAPHAZARD MANNER ALL OVER THE PLACE, YOU KNOW, IN THAT AREA. YES. AND HAZARD IS NOT THE INTENT. AND I'M A LITTLE CONFUSED. YOU KNOW, YOUR CLIENT HAS REQUESTED THAT WAIVER FOR MINIMUM PARKING SPACE SIZE, BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE OF THE OPINION THAT THAT WAIVER IS NOT REQUIRED. SO I'M A LITTLE CONFUSED. ARE YOU GUYS REQUESTING THE WAIVER. AND THEN YOU ALSO REFERENCED RSIS. AND I UNDERSTAND I MEAN THIS IS NOT A RESIDENTIAL SITE APPLICATION. 
          RSI IS ONLY ONLY PERTAINS TO RESIDENTIAL SITE DEVELOPMENT. IT DOES. AND SO AND WE DO UNDERSTAND THAT NINE BY NINE BY 18 IS A STANDARD SIZE. BUT IT DOESN'T MEET OUR CODE OF TEN BY 20. AND I'M NOT OPPOSED TO THE APPROVAL OF THE WAIVER FOR NINE BY 18. YOU KNOW, IT'S AN AREA IT'S NOT A SHOPPING CENTER WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE CARS, YOU KNOW, COMING OUT WITH GROCERIES, BANGING INTO EACH OTHER, YOU KNOW, WHEN THEY'RE OPENING THEIR DOORS. I THINK NINE BY 18 WORKS IN THIS AREA. I'M JUST A LITTLE CONFUSED BY, YOU KNOW, ARE THEY REQUESTING A WAIVER OR NOT? MR. KELLY, I THINK BECAUSE YOU CALLED OUT THE WAIVER IN YOUR REPORT. WE ARE REQUESTING IT. I THINK THE PURPOSE OF MR. VAN CAMP'S TESTIMONY WAS JUST WAS ALMOST TO BE LIKE, SAY, LIKE, FOR THESE REASONS, I WE DON'T EVEN FOR THESE REASONS, IT JUSTIFIES THE VARIANCE, MEANING THIS ISN'T REALLY A PARKING LOT IN THE, IN THE NORMAL SENSE OF THE WORD, IT'S MORE OF A STORAGE AREA FOR OUTDOOR STORAGE. SO WHILE HE SAID HE COULD MAKE THE ARGUMENT IT'S NOT REQUIRED FOR THIS. FOR THIS. I THINK THAT WAS MORE JUST A BUFFER. HIS ARGUMENT THAT A WAIVER IS, IS. SO YOU'RE ASKING FOR THE WAIVER, ASKING FOR THE WAIVER. I JUST THINK HE WAS TRYING TO ARTICULATE THIS REALLY ISN'T GOING TO BE AN ISSUE. THIS REALLY ISN'T AN ISSUE FOR THIS TO BE APPROVED. AND JUST IN RESPONSE, I, I DID NOTE IT IN MY REPORT AS A AS A WAIVER THAT THEY REQUESTED. SO THIS IS SOMETHING THAT THEY REQUESTED. 
          AND I PUT IN MY REPORT. YES. SO LET'S FOLLOW THROUGH WITH THE CONCEPT THAT YOU REQUIRE A WAIVER AND YOU'RE ASKING FOR THAT WAIVER. AND MR. KELLY DOESN'T HAVE AN OBJECTION TO THAT. SO AGREED. WHY DON'T WE LEAVE IT AT THAT. YES. AND MY TESTIMONY WAS IN TWO PARTS. AND THE SECOND PART WAS ACTUALLY THE WAIVER OF STANDARDS. SO I AGREE. AND JUST TO CONFIRM MY UNDERSTANDING AND FOR THE RECORD, THE DISPLAY AREA THAT YOU'RE ASKING TO HAVE A SMALLER SPACE FOR IS GATED, AND IT'S NOT A GENERAL AREA THAT A CITIZEN COULD ACCIDENTALLY DRIVE. THE ONLY DRIVERS IN IT ARE EMPLOYEES. CORRECT. AND THE BACK AREA IS ALSO A GATED AND SECURED AREA. AGAIN, NOT SOMETHING THAT THE PUBLIC COULD ACCIDENTALLY DRIVE THROUGH 100%. 
          BUT THE OTHER LOT THAT HAS THE VISITORS, ETC. THOSE ARE TEN BY 20, CORRECT? OKAY, THAT'S A REGULAR PARKING LOT. GOT IT. WE DIDN'T MESS WITH SIZES. THANK YOU. LASTLY, I'LL JUST REAL QUICK CHECK OFF YOU HEARD FROM MR. CHAN THE DESCRIPTION OF THE SIGNAGE. IT'S A VERY SMALL INCREASE FROM WHAT'S PERMITTED. YOU HEARD AND SAW IN THE ARCHITECTURE THAT IT'S APPROPRIATELY LOCATED ON THE BUILDING. IT'S A SPLASH OF COLOR IN LOCATIONS. I THINK 
          [00:35:01]
IT'S PART OF THE ESTHETICS OF THE BUILDING AND ALLOWS FOR NAVIGATION FOR CUSTOMERS. SO I WON'T SAY ANYTHING MORE THAN THAT. I THINK MR. CHAN COVERED IT IN DETAILS. THERE ARE SOME OTHER WAIVERS ON MR. KELLY'S AUGUST 6TH LETTER ON PAGE THREE THAT MR. CHAN ADDRESSED, AND I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ADDITIONAL FROM A PLANNING PERSPECTIVE TO ADD OTHER THAN THAT, I AGREE THAT THEY ARE SUITABLE FOR THE SITE UNDER THE EFFICIENT USE OF LAND AND THE FENCING IN THE FRONT YARD. DID YOU COVER THAT? I DID THAT UP FRONT. OKAY, BRIEFLY. IT IS THE EXTENDED RIGHT OF WAY OF THE ROUTE 17 INTERCHANGE. IT IS ELEVATED, HEAVILY WOODED. I DON'T EVEN THINK A DRIVER ON THAT ROADWAY WOULD SEE A DIFFERENCE IN HEIGHT, THIS BEING A FRONT YARD, AND I THINK IT SERVES A PURPOSE FOR THE SITE IN CONTAINING THE ACTIVITY IN THE STAGING AREA. 
          AND WITH REGARD TO THE SIGNAGE, RIGHT. TYPICALLY YOU, YOU MUNICIPALITIES LIMIT THE AMOUNT OF SIGNAGE FOR ESTHETIC PURPOSES. THEY DON'T WANT THEY DON'T WANT BUILDINGS TO BE OVER SIGNED. CORRECT. AND IN IN THIS CASE, IS THAT WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE? NO. OKAY. THE DISCREPANCY IS NUMERICALLY ARE RELATIVELY SMALL. THE BUILDING IS SET BACK AND I THINK THEY'RE APPROPRIATELY SCALED. AND IN FACT, AND IN FACT, I THINK SOME OF THE DISCREPANCY IS THAT THE BLUE BACKGROUND OF THE PAINTING OF THE WALL IS ACTUALLY CONSIDERED PART OF THE SIGNAGE, AS OPPOSED TO ACTUAL PHYSICAL SIGNAGE. IT'S THE WHAT YOU COUNT ISSUE. YES, YES. SO OFTEN THEN I HAVE JUST UNLESS YOU'RE YOU HAVE ANY JUST GENERAL QUESTIONS, YOU KNOW, A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF THIS THE QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD AND APPROPRIATE AND FROM THE PUBLIC IS BECAUSE THIS ABUTS A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD, DO YOU HAVE ANY OPINIONS FROM A PLANNING PERSPECTIVE OF WHETHER THIS APPLICATION, THIS DEVELOPMENT THAT'S PROPOSED IS APPROPRIATE GIVEN THAT IT ABUTS THE RESIDENTIAL RESIDENTIAL ZONE PROPERTIES? IT IS ALMOST UNIVERSALLY TRUE THAT STRIP COMMERCIAL ZONES ALONG HIGHWAYS ARE BUT RESIDENTIAL BEHIND THEM. 
          SO THIS IS NOT A UNIQUE CONDITION, I THINK, IN TERMS OF THE LEVEL OF INTENSITY OF THE USES THAT ARE PERMITTED IN THE DISTRICT, THIS IS NOT AMONGST THE MOST INTENSE. SO I THINK IT'S QUITE REASONABLE THAT THIS USE BE ON THIS SITE. AND I THINK MR. CHAN AND WORKING WITH PROFESSIONALS HAS DONE AN EXCELLENT JOB IN CREATING APPROPRIATE SETBACKS, BUFFERS WALLS TO PROTECT THAT INTERFACE BETWEEN THE USES. AND THEN FINALLY, WITH REGARD TO THE SAME TOPIC, YOU KNOW, QUITE OFTEN THE CASE, YOU KNOW, NEW JERSEY MUNICIPAL LAND USE LAW SAYS WHEN YOU HAVE GRANTING VARIANCES, YOU TRY TO IMPLEMENT CONDITIONS WHICH ALLEVIATE ANY SUBSTANTIAL DETRIMENT TO THE THAT THE VARIANCES MIGHT THAT THE VARIANCES MIGHT CAUSE. HERE WE DON'T REALLY HAVE ANY OF THE VARIANCES THAT COULD CAUSE THOSE THOSE DETRIMENTS. BUT FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE CONDITIONS, SOME OF THE CONDITIONS THAT YOU'VE HEARD THE THE APPLICANT AGREE TO, SUCH AS THE HOURS OF OPERATION, THE HOUR, THE, THE DELIVERY HOURS, THE NUMBER OF TRUCKS. DO YOU BELIEVE THE CONDITIONS THAT HAVE BEEN STIPULATED TO SERVE THE PURPOSES, PURPOSES OF ALLEVIATING ANY SUBSTANTIAL DETRIMENT THAT THIS APPLICATION COULD POSSIBLY HAVE ABUTTING RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY? YES, BUT NOT TYING IT TO ANY VARIANCE. 
          CORRECT. JUST THE BEGINNING OF YOUR QUESTION. JUST JUST MEANING A COMMERCIAL, A COMMERCIAL ESTABLISHMENT ABUTTING A RESIDENTIAL ESTABLISHMENT. YES. AS I SAID, MR. CHEN, OBVIOUSLY WORKING UNDER THE DIRECTION OF THE CLIENT IN WORKING WITH THE MUNICIPALITY STAFF, I THINK HAS PRODUCED AN EXCELLENT PLAN IN TERMS OF PROTECTING THE EDGES OF THE SITE. AND AGAIN, YOU REPRESENT CARMAX IN A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF APPLICATIONS. I HAVE NO FURTHER QUESTIONS. MADAM CHAIRWOMAN. OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. AND DOES ANY OF THE BOARD MEMBERS DO ANY OF THE BOARD MEMBERS HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THIS EXPERT? MIKE, A COUPLE MEETINGS AGO, YOU REQUESTED ISLANDS IN THE FRONT DISPLAY AREA. WAS THAT EVER ADDRESSED? WE REVIEWED IT AT THE LAST MEETING, AND THEN I WENT BACK AND I REVIEW. SO THE CODE REQUIRES 5% OF A PARKING LOT AREA TO BE LANDSCAPED. AND BASED ON WHAT THEY'VE PROVIDED, THEY THEY EXCEED 5%. SO I'M OKAY WITH THEM NOT HAVING ISLANDS. MY QUESTIONS ARE ASKED AND ANSWERED. THANK YOU. OKAY. THANK YOU. MEGAN, DO YOU HAVE ANY. NO, I'M ALL SET. THANK YOU. GEORGE, I THINK WE DID PRETTY GOOD. OKAY. I HAVE A QUESTION. 
          AT SOME OF THE OTHER MANY OF THE OTHER CARMAX PLACES THAT YOU'VE WORKED ON, HAVE THERE BEEN ANY OTHER BUFFERS OR WALLS OR TREES OR ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU'VE OFFERED TO OTHER RESIDENT, YOU KNOW, RESIDENTIAL? IT'S OVER AREAS OF WORK. SO I'M TRYING TO THINK BACK AND DO YOUR QUESTION JUSTICE. BUT BUT I THINK THE PALETTE OF, OF THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED HERE ARE APPROPRIATE FOR THE USE AND THE SCALE OF THE USE. THIS IS THE SMALLEST OF THE CARMAX 
          [00:40:03]
LOCATIONS I'VE WORKED ON. SOME OF THEM ARE MORE HEAVILY ORIENTED TOWARDS RECONDITIONING AND AUCTION THAT ARE THAT ARE NOT AS CLOSE TO RESIDENTIAL, BUT MAY HAVE HAD A BIGGER WALL. 
          BUT THE ACTIVITIES THERE WERE DIFFERENT. SO I THINK WHAT YOU HAVE HERE IS APPROPRIATE TO THE THE USE THAT'S ACTUALLY BEING PROPOSED. THIS, AS I SAID, THIS IS THE SMALLEST, LEAST INTENSE CARMAX FACILITY. IT'S PRIMARILY A RETAIL CENTER. IT'S NOT DOING THE RECONDITIONING, IT'S NOT DOING THE LARGE SCALE AUCTIONS. SO I THINK THIS IS A DIFFERENT, SMALLER SCALE USE. OKAY. JUST WONDERING IF THERE WAS ANYTHING WE HADN'T THOUGHT OF THAT WE COULD, WE COULD ASK FOR. OKAY, OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ALL RIGHT, MR. KELLY. YEAH, JUST JUST SO WE HAVE A CLEAR RECORD, IT WAS JUST MENTIONED THAT THERE'D BE NO LARGE SCALE AUCTIONS HERE. THE TESTIMONY EARLIER WAS THAT THERE'D BE NO AUCTIONS AT THIS SITE, NO AUCTIONS. OKAY. WITH RESPECT TO LIGHT LEVELS, AT THE LAST MEETING, IT WAS NOTED THAT A WAIVER IS GOING TO BE REQUIRED FOR LIGHT LEVELS GREATER THAN 1.5FT CANDLES IN THE PARKING LOT 4.0 IS PROPOSED. JUST SO WE HAVE A COMPLETE RECORD, CAN YOU JUST PROVIDE PLANNING TESTIMONY AND SUPPORT OF THAT WAIVER? MR. CHAN IS OBVIOUSLY THE MORE TECHNICAL EXPERT IN DESCRIBING FOOT CANDLES AT LOCATIONS OF THE SITE. THE THREE THINGS ARE MY UNDERSTANDING. ONE IS THAT FOOT CANDLES HIT ZERO AT PROPERTY LINE AND THERE IS NO UNSHIELDED LIGHT FIXTURE VISIBLE FROM THE RESIDENTIAL AREAS. THEY EITHER HAVE SHIELDS OR THEY'RE UNDER BUILDING. THERE'S NOTHING AIMED IN THAT DIRECTION THAT ONE WOULD SEE A BULB. I GUESS TWO THINGS I THINK THAT'S AS FAR AS MY EXPERTISE CAN TAKE IT. OKAY, GREAT. THANK YOU. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE WE HAD THAT ON THE RECORD. OH THANK YOU SIR. THAT'S ALL I HAVE. ALL RIGHT, MR. DICKERSON, ALL THE QUESTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN RAISED IN MY MEMO HAVE BEEN ANSWERED. ALL RIGHT. VERY GOOD. ALL RIGHT. 
          SO AT THIS TIME, WE WILL OPEN TO THE PUBLIC MOTION TO OPEN SECOND. GEORGE AND MEGAN AT THIS TIME. OH, YEAH. NO, NO, PLEASE. I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY AT THIS TIME, IF ANY OF THE MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC WOULD LIKE TO COME UP AND ASK ANY QUESTIONS TO THIS WITNESS ABOUT HIS EXPERTISE IN PLANNING SUBSTANTIAL WEBER SAND TURN THAT ON. SANDRA WEBER WEBR. I LIVE AT 18 BEEHIVE COURT. SO AS YOU STATED, THE STORAGE OF VEHICLES, GOODS NOT YET PERSONAL VEHICLES. BUT AT THE LAST MEETING, THE COUNCIL MEMBERS WANTED TO KNOW HOW MANY CARS WOULD BE AT THE SITE. AND WE STILL HAVEN'T GOTTEN THAT ANSWER. AND I'M NOT THE PERSON THAT CAN GIVE THAT TO YOU. OKAY, OKAY. THANK YOU, THANK YOU. WAS I DON'T I DON'T RECALL THAT BEING A QUESTION ON THE TOTAL NUMBER OF VEHICLES THAT WILL BE ON SITE. I DO YOU HAPPEN TO KNOW OR WOULD ANY OF YOUR. WELL, THERE'S 150 SPACES IN THE IN THE DISPLAY AREA THERE'S 127 THAT ARE PERMITTED IN THE AREA. THERE'S. WHICH AREA? THE THE THE, THE AREA IN THE BACK BEHIND THE BUILDING AND THERE'S 100 THERE'S 52 PARKING SPACES NOW IN THE CUSTOMER PARKING LOT. 
          AND THEN THERE ARE THREE WORK BAYS AND ONE. WASH BAY. SO I BELIEVE THOSE ARE. THAT'S THE. 
          TOTAL AVAILABLE PARK. YEAH. I MEAN, YEAH, YEAH, I GET 333. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S THAT WAS ADDED UP. OKAY. TWO NO, WE'RE GOOD. WE'RE GOOD AROUND IN THAT GENERAL AREA. 300 AROUND 330. 
          AND THAT'S IF EVERY THAT'S IF EVERY SINGLE. YEAH. EVERY SINGLE SPOT WAS FILLED. OKAY. 
          ALL RIGHT. GREAT. DO I HAVE ANY OTHER MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC WISH TO COME UP AT THIS TIME? SEEING NOBODY. MOTION TO CLOSE TO THE PUBLIC MOTION TO CLOSE SECOND. OKAY. GEORGE AND TRACY, THERE'S A CLIP ON THE FLOOR. I DIDN'T WANT YOU TO TRIP. THANK YOU. YOU'RE WELCOME. OKAY. YES. 
          OKAY. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. OKAY. MR. KENNEDY, GOOD EVENING. HOW ARE YOU? GOOD. WOULD YOU STATE YOUR NAME IN FULL AND SPELL YOUR LAST CLEARLY? NICHOLAS KENNEDY. 
          YES. NICHOLAS KENNEDY. KENNEDY IS KENNED. AND, NICHOLAS, IF YOU'D RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND, DO YOU SOLEMNLY SWEAR OR AFFIRM THAT ANY TESTIMONY YOU OFFER THIS EVENING BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH I DO? ARE YOU A LICENSED PROFESSIONAL ENGINEER IN THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY? YES. HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN SO LICENSED? ABOUT 30 YEARS. AND WHAT IS YOUR CORPORATE OR BUSINESS AFFILIATION? WHO DO YOU WORK FOR? STONEFIELD 
          [00:45:03]
ENGINEERING AND DESIGN IS AT 92 PARK AVENUE IN RUTHERFORD, NEW JERSEY. AND HAVE YOU TESTIFIED BEFORE THIS BOARD OR SIMILAR BOARDS IN THE PAST? I PLACE IN MAHWAH. I DON'T RECALL BECAUSE IT WAS THE PLANNING OR ZONING BOARD, BUT I'VE BEEN IN FRONT OF OVER THREE DOZEN BOARDS. IT WAS THE ZONING BOARD. HE WAS WITH ME. SO, MARK, YOU TESTIFIED. OKAY, GREAT. MADAM CHAIRWOMAN, WE ACCEPT YOUR CREDENTIALS. THANK YOU. OKAY. IS DECEMBER 23RD. MR. KENNEDY. 
          YOU HAVE REVIEWED AND ARE FAMILIAR WITH THE APPLICATION MATERIALS. YES. YOU'VE BEEN YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THE SITE? YES. YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THE ROUTE 17 CORRIDOR? YEP. YOU WERE SOMEONE UNDER YOUR SUPERVISION PREPARED THE TRAFFIC REPORT DATED DECEMBER 23RD, 2025 SUBMITTED AS PART OF THIS APPLICATION. YES. OKAY. MR. DALE, WE MIGHT AS WELL MARK A11 THAT THAT TRAFFIC REPORT. IT'S NOT ON MY LIST, BUT I'LL I'LL ADD IT AT A LATER DATE. SO THAT'S THE DECEMBER 23RD OF 25 TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDY SIGNED IN THE FRONT BY JOHN KORACH AND MATT SECHLER, CORRECT? YEAH. CORRECT. OKAY. SO WE'RE GOING TO CALL THAT A 11 AND AN UPDATED EXHIBIT LIST. OKAY. SO THEN WHY DON'T. AND YOU'RE AND YOU'VE, YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THE APPLICANT, THE APPLICANT'S OPERATIONS. AND AS FAR AS IT RELATES TO TRAFFIC. YES. AND YOU'RE PREPARED TO TESTIFY ON THE, THE PARKING SITE CIRCULATION AND THE INGRESS EGRESS POINTS. CORRECT. OKAY. WHY DON'T YOU GO THROUGH WITH THE BOARD, YOUR YOUR YOUR FINDINGS. SURE. SO I WON'T REPEAT TOO MUCH OF THE TESTIMONY, BUT JUST FOR SOME BACKGROUND ON THE, THE AREA ITSELF, OF COURSE, WE'RE LOCATED ALONG ROUTE 17 NORTHBOUND, THAT IS UNDER DOTDOT JURISDICTION. I BELIEVE MR. CHAN MENTIONED IT, BUT I'LL JUST REPEAT, WE DO HAVE AN ACTIVE APPLICATION WITH THE DOT. I'LL GET INTO SORT OF THEIR THOUGHTS AS WE GET THROUGH THE TESTIMONY, BUT WE DO HAVE AN ACTIVE MINOR ACCESS PERMIT APPLICATION THAT IS BEING REVIEWED BY THE DOT AT THIS TIME, ROUTE 17, IT CARRIES ABOUT 100,000 VEHICLES A DAY. THAT'S BOTH NORTHBOUND AND SOUTHBOUND, ABOUT SPLIT 5050 BETWEEN THE VEHICLES THAT TRAVEL NORTHBOUND AND THE VEHICLES THAT TRAVEL SOUTHBOUND THROUGHOUT THE DAY. KIND OF DIALING THAT BACK SLIGHTLY. THERE ARE ABOUT 4000 VEHICLES THAT TRAVEL NORTHBOUND DURING THE PEAK HOURS, SO THE PEAK TIME THROUGHOUT THE DAY, YOU HAVE ABOUT 4000 VEHICLES THAT WOULD DRIVE BY THIS SITE ON ROUTE 17 NORTHBOUND. AGAIN, IT'S PROPOSED TO CONSTRUCT ABOUT A 7700 SQUARE FOOT CARMAX USED CAR DEALERSHIP. IT PROVIDES BOTH CAR SALES AND SERVICE, WHICH, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY HAS BEEN TESTIFIED TO FROM MULTIPLE MULTIPLE WITNESSES HERE. SO I'VE REVIEWED THE THE VIDEO FROM THE PREVIOUS HEARINGS. OBVIOUSLY, I WORKED ON THE TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDY. I VISITED THE SITE. AND I THINK ONE OF THE BIGGEST QUESTIONS THE BOARD HAD WAS THE ACTUAL AMOUNT OF CARS COMING INTO AND OUT OF THE SITE, WHERE DO THEY GO, SOME OF THE OPERATIONS, AND AGAIN, SOME OF THAT'S BEEN TESTIFIED TO. BUT I'LL TRY TO REITERATE FROM A TRAFFIC PERSPECTIVE. SO IN IN TOTALITY, THE SITE IS EXPECTED TO GENERATE 250 TOTAL TRIPS ON A TYPICAL DAY. SO TRIP IS EITHER IN OR OUT. SOMEBODY'S ENTERING THE SITE IS ONE TRIP, SOMEBODY EXITING THE SITE IS ANOTHER TRIP. SO ON AVERAGE, YOU HAVE ABOUT 125 CARS THAT ARE GOING TO ENTER AND EXIT THE SITE ON A TYPICAL DAY. THIS INCLUDES EVERY TRIP FROM EMPLOYEES, CUSTOMERS, FOR THE SALES, CUSTOMERS FOR THE SERVICE, THE ACTUAL CAR CARRIER TRUCKS, THAT 125 VEHICLES THAT WILL TRAVEL INTO AND OUT OF THE SITE. THAT ENCOMPASSES EVERY VEHICLE THAT WILL ACCESS THE SITE WHEN IT'S OPEN AND WHEN WHEN THE DELIVERIES ARE OCCURRING. SO TO EXPAND ON THAT SLIGHTLY FURTHER DURING THE PEAK HOURS. SO THE PEAK TIME PERIOD THROUGHOUT THE DAY, WE EXPECT 29 TOTAL TRIPS. AND AGAIN, THAT'S ENCOMPASSING BOTH INGRESS AND EGRESS TRIPS, 29 TRIPS DURING THE WEEKDAY PEAK HOUR AND 38 TRIPS DURING THE WEEKEND PEAK HOUR. SO ESSENTIALLY DURING THE WEEKDAY, PROBABLY YOUR YOUR P M POST 9 TO 5 WORK DAY TRAFFIC VOLUME, YOU'D HAVE PROBABLY 14 VEHICLES ENTERING THE SITE, 15 EXITING. AND THEN ON THE WEEKEND YOU WOULD HAVE 19 ENTERING THE SITE AND 19 EXITING JUST ONCE AGAIN. TO EXPAND ON THAT A LITTLE FURTHER, WHAT WE FIND, WHAT WE FIND RUNNING THOSE TRAFFIC VOLUMES IS ABOUT 10 TO 15% OF THE TOTAL SITE GENERATED. TRAFFIC IN ANY DAY COMES WITHIN THE PEAK HOUR. SO IF WE'RE OPEN FOR A 12 HOUR WINDOW, ABOUT 10 TO 15% OF THAT TRAFFIC OR THAT PEAK TRAFFIC VOLUME WILL OCCUR 
          [00:50:04]
IN ONE HOUR, OBVIOUSLY, THE REST OF THE TRAFFIC WILL BE DISPERSED THROUGHOUT THE OTHER REMAINING OPERATING HOURS. AS FAR AS THE DRIVEWAY ITSELF, WE TRIED TO DESIGN THIS OBVIOUSLY, FOR SAFETY AND EFFICIENCY. ONE THING THAT IS A BENEFIT HERE ALONG ROUTE 17, THERE'S ACTUALLY SHOULDERS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE ROAD HEADING NORTHBOUND. THERE'S ONE TO THE LEFT OF THE LEFTMOST LANE, AND WE HAVE A SHOULDER ALONG OUR FRONTAGE THAT ACTS AS A NATURAL DECELERATION LANE. COMING INTO THE SITE, WE PLACE THE DRIVEWAY ESSENTIALLY AS FAR SOUTH AS WE COULD, SO THAT SHOULDER WILL PROVIDE AGAIN AS AS A NATURAL DECELERATION LANE. I MENTIONED WE HAVE AN ACTIVE APPLICATION, AND WITH THE DOT WE HAVE RECEIVED COMMENTS FROM THEM WHICH WE ARE RESPONDING TO. NONE OF THOSE COMMENTS HAD ANY ISSUE WITH THE DRIVEWAY LOCATION, THE DRIVEWAY GEOMETRY. WE HAVE SOME TYPICAL DOT DRAINAGE COMMENTS AND SOME THINGS TO RESPOND. BUT AS FAR AS THE DRIVEWAY ITSELF AND HOW WE DESIGNED IT, THEY DID NOT SEE AN ISSUE. THEY REVIEWED THE TRIP GENERATION, OBVIOUSLY THE SITE PLANS, AND AGAIN, WE HAVE NOT RECEIVED COMMENTS WITH ANYTHING WHERE WE WOULD THINK WE WOULD NEED TO CHANGE THE DRIVEWAY OR SEE THAT THEY WOULD HAVE AN ISSUE WITH IT. AS FAR AS THE TRAFFIC VOLUMES ASSOCIATED WITH THE DEVELOPMENT, OBVIOUSLY, AGAIN, THIS IS ALONG ROUTE 17. THE THE TRIP GENERATION OF OUR SITE IS REALLY A DROP IN THE BUCKET COMPARED TO THE TRAFFIC VOLUMES ALONG ROUTE 17. I THINK OUR DRIVEWAY IS DESIGNED SAFELY AND EFFICIENTLY TO GET CARS, EVEN THE THE CAR CARRIERS THEMSELVES ONTO AND OFF OF THE SITE. SO AGAIN, I THINK WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE ACTUAL TRAFFIC VOLUMES AND I'LL GET MORE INTO THE SITE CIRCULATION, PARKING AND THAT THAT KIND OF AREA IN A MINUTE HERE. BUT I THINK WHEN YOU'RE PURELY LOOKING AT THE TRAFFIC VOLUMES COMING ON AND OFF THE SITE, THIS WOULD HAVE A NEGLIGIBLE IMPACT ON THE ROADWAY NETWORK. AGAIN, THERE'S MULTIPLE CAR DEALERSHIPS ALONG ROUTE 17 NORTH. JUST ON MY WAY HERE, I COUNTED SIX WITHIN ABOUT FIVE MILES. SO THIS IS A USE THAT OBVIOUSLY ALONG ROUTE 17 IS ONE THAT IS NOT FEW AND FAR BETWEEN. MOVING ON SORT OF TO THE ON SITE CIRCULATION, PARKING AND KIND OF SPRINKLING IN SOME OPERATIONS REALLY WHEN I, WHEN I REVIEW A SITE LIKE THIS, I SEE THREE DIFFERENT OPERATIONS ON THE SITE. THERE'S THE CUSTOMER SALES. SOMEBODY COMES IN AND THEY WANT TO BUY A CAR. THERE'S THE SERVICE, WHICH I'LL GET INTO AND I THINK HAS BEEN EXPLAINED BOTH, YOU KNOW, AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS HEARING AND IN PREVIOUS HEARINGS. BUT THERE'S THE CARS THAT COME IN THAT NEED THEIR CAR SERVICED. AND THEN THERE'S THE, THE TRUCK UNLOADING AND LOADING OF CARS THAT WILL EITHER BE TAKEN OFF THE SITE OR DROPPED OFF ONTO THE SITE. SO I JUST WANT TO EXPLAIN QUICKLY HOW EACH OF THOSE OPERATIONS WORK AND, AND HOW THEY WORK FROM A TRAFFIC PERSPECTIVE. SO CUSTOMER SALES, I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S THE EASIEST ONE TO EXPLAIN. YOU ENTER THE SITE FROM ROUTE 17 NORTH. YOU PARK IN THE EMPLOYEE CUSTOMER PARKING AREA. YOU WALK IN JUST LIKE ANY OTHER CAR DEALERSHIP. 
          YOU'RE LIKELY GREETED BY AN EMPLOYEE AND THEN YOU KNOW THEY'LL HELP YOU ON YOUR WAY, SHOW YOU CARS, WHATEVER YOU MAY NEED TO DO. SO I THINK THAT'S THE SIMPLEST. YOU DRIVE IN, YOU PARK IN THE PARKING LOT, YOU ENTER THE BUILDING, YOU PROBABLY GET BACK INTO YOUR CAR AND YOU LEAVE THE SERVICE ITSELF. AGAIN, IT'S BEEN TESTIFIED TO THERE'S THERE'S MINIMAL SERVICE WORK ON THE SITE. I BELIEVE 99% IS FROM OF SALES IS FROM CAR SALES. ABOUT 1% IS SERVICE. WE WOULDN'T EXPECT MORE THAN MAYBE 5 TO 10 VEHICLES BEING SERVICED THAN A DAY, BUT THE VEHICLES WHO WHO WOULD GET THEIR CAR SERVICE HERE WOULD HAVE TO MAKE AN APPOINTMENT. ALL OF THESE THINGS COULD BE SCHEDULED. YOU WOULD THEY WOULD KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEM WITH THE CAR HAS. I THINK THAT ELIMINATES THE ASPECT OF SOMEBODY TAKING THEIR CAR IN. AND THIS CARMAX SPECIFICALLY CAN'T SERVICE IT. I THINK THAT'S A HUGE BENEFIT OF THE APPOINTMENTS. IT'S IT'S NOT REALLY A DROP OFF MY CAR. I HAVE AN ISSUE KIND OF PLACE. 
          THEY WILL KNOW WHAT THE ISSUE IS, IF THEY CAN SERVICE IT AND IF THEY CAN, THEY'LL GIVE YOU A TIME AND DATE TO COME. EARLIER. I THINK YOU SAID THERE WERE FIVE, RIGHT? FIVE A DAY. ARE WE FIRM ON THAT? I 2 TO 5. THAT WAS THE TESTIMONY. THAT WAS THE TESTIMONY. I'M GLAD I CLARIFIED THAT. SORRY TO INTERRUPT YOU. OKAY. NO NO PROBLEM FOR TECH. SO IF THERE ARE TWO TECHS. OH TEN OH. GOT IT. PERFECT. THANK YOU. I'M SORRY TO INTERRUPT. NO, ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM. SO AGAIN, I THINK MR. COHEN TESTIFIED TO IT AS WELL. WE WE DON'T EXPECT THAT THE THE GENERAL CUSTOMER IS GOING TO COME IN WITHOUT AN APPOINTMENT. THEY LIKELY WILL HAVE TO MAKE THAT APPOINTMENT. 
          WE JUST WENT OVER THE AMOUNT OF TEXT. SO THAT'S GREAT. MOVING ON TO THE TRUCK, UNLOADING AND LOADING, I THINK THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF DISCUSSION ON THE THE TIMES AND THE OPERATIONS OF HOW THAT WILL WORK. SO I WON'T RE TESTIFY TO IT. BUT AGAIN, THE THE CAR CARRIER WILL CALL THEM, WILL ENTER THE SITE. AND AGAIN, WE'VE RAN THE TURNING MANEUVERS. THEY CAN MANEUVER AROUND THE 
          [00:55:02]
SITE. WE OBVIOUSLY PROVIDE THOSE TO UNLOADING AND LOADING SPACES FOR THE CAR CARRIER ITSELF. THERE ARE 100FT LONG. THE CAR CARRIER ITSELF IS ONLY ABOUT 75 TO 80FT LONG, SO IT'S A GENEROUS SIZE TO TO ACCOMMODATE THAT VEHICLE AND ITS SIZE, THE CAR WILL COME ON TO THE SITE. IN THIS EXAMPLE, I'LL SAY THEY ARE UNLOADING CARS. THEY WILL UNLOAD THE CARS. 
          THE EMPLOYEES WILL MOST LIKELY THEY WILL BE DRIVEN RIGHT INTO THE THE REAR WHERE THEY WILL BE, YOU KNOW, WASHED AND CLEANED UP BEFORE THEY GET INTO THE DISPLAY AREA. AGAIN, I THINK WE TALKED ABOUT IF THE STORE IS CLOSED POST 9 P.M. THEY WOULD BE TEMPORARILY PUT IN THE CUSTOMER AND EMPLOYEE PARKING LOT, WHERE IN THE MORNING A CARMAX EMPLOYEE WOULD THEN DRIVE THEM UP INTO THAT REAR AREA. IS THAT WHAT WE SAID EARLIER? BECAUSE I THOUGHT THEY SAID WHEN MEGAN ASKED, SHE, SHE SAID, ARE THEY GOING TO BE DO THEY HAVE THE, THE, YOU KNOW, THE CODE FOR THE GATE? AND THEY WERE GOING TO PUT THEM IN THE BACK. SO WAIT, WHEN THE CAR CARRIER DROPS THEM OFF, THEY GET. AND ANY TIME OF DAY, WHETHER IT'S OFF HOURS OR, OR REGULAR HOURS, IT GETS. THEY GET DROPPED IN THE EMPLOYEE SECTION AND THEN MOVED DURING REGULAR HOURS. THEY'LL BE TAKEN RIGHT INTO THE REAR BECAUSE PEOPLE WILL BE THERE. CORRECT. 
          IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT POST 9 P.M. THEY WOULD UTILIZE THE CUSTOMER AND EMPLOYEE SPACES, AND THEN OBVIOUSLY THE EMPLOYEES IN THE MORNING SHOW UP BEFORE THE STORES OPEN. THEY WOULD TAKE THOSE CARS AT THAT POINT AND MOVE THEM. OKAY, THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING. BUT DURING NORMAL BUSINESS HOURS, THEY WOULD BE TAKEN RIGHT TO WHERE THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO GO, RIGHT. BUT OFF HOURS, THEY'D BE JUST OFFLOADED IN THE IN THE FRONT, IF YOU WILL, CLOSE TO THE CLOSE TO 17TH, HOW MANY CAR CARRIERS WILL BE THERE AT ANY ONE TIME? WE CAN'T HAVE MORE THAN TWO BECAUSE WE ONLY HAVE TWO LOADING SPACES. SO I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING WE WOULD STIPULATE TO. AGAIN, WE WE ONLY EXPECT 3 TO 6 A DAY. THOSE ARE ALSO SCHEDULED. SO SIMILAR TO THE SERVICE ITSELF, THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE ARE STAGGERED THROUGHOUT THE DAY. SO IF YOU HAVE A CAR CARRIER, JUST SAY ON THE OUTSIDE LANE AND THEN ONE ON THE CENTER LANE. IF THE CENTER LANE GUY IS LOADED AND WANTS TO GO RIGHT, HE'S GOING TO BE ABLE TO PULL UP IN THAT RADIUS. TURN RIGHT THERE WITH THE OUTSIDE CAR CARRIER IN PLACE. YES, YES. 
          THOSE WERE DESIGNED TO MAKE SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, VEHICLES GET INTO AND OUT OF THAT. THOSE SPOTS, EVEN IF ONE WAS SITTING IN THE OTHER SPOT AND HE CAN MAKE THAT TURN, GO DOWN THAT 30 FOOT WIDE AND THEN MAKE A 40 FOOT, LIKE DO A BIG LOOP RIGHT THERE. I THINK I'M TRYING TO FOLLOW. DO YOU MEAN COMING AROUND THE ACTUAL CUSTOMER EMPLOYEE AREA? CUSTOMER EMPLOYEE AREA? YES, YES. AND HE'LL BE ABLE TO MAKE THAT TURN. IF THERE'S A CAR CARRIER HERE. 
          YES, YES. THEY COULD GET INTO BOTH OF THESE PARKING SPACES. THAT'S REALLY THE REASON WE WANTED TO AND DESIGNED THEM IN THE WAY MANNER THAT WE DID. AND IT'S ONLY TWO LOADING SPACES, RIGHT? YOU SHOW THE PLANS, SHOW A 30 FOOT WIDE AISLE AND THEN A 15 AND A 15. YES, BUT THE 15 AND 15 ARE REALLY JUST ONE LOADING AREA. CORRECT. YOU'RE NOT HAVING THREE LOADING AREAS. 
          NO, IT'S JUST 230. YOU CAN PUT ONE ON THE 30 FOOT SIDE. YEAH. IT WOULDN'T BE ON THE THE 30 FOOT WIDE DRIVE AISLE. WE WANTED TO OBVIOUSLY MAINTAIN THAT FOR VEHICLES WHO ARE CIRCULATE OTHER VEHICLES WHO ARE CIRCULATING THE SITE. I GOT IT. YEAH. THOSE ARE MARKED I GOT IT. ARE THEY GOING TO BE LIKE STRIPED OR MARKED FOR THE CARRIERS? YES. THANK YOU. THEY SAID YES. BEHIND YOU. OKAY. PERFECT. I WAS JUST I WAS JUST CHECKING IF WE HAD. IT LOOKED LIKE YOU'RE STRUGGLING FOR A MINUTE. THEY WILL BE SMALL PLAN AGAIN. I, I THINK GENERALLY THAT CONCLUDES THE THE OVERALL TESTIMONY. I THINK WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE TRAFFIC VOLUME ALONG ROUTE 17 AND THE ANALYSIS, THE ANALYSIS WE'VE CONDUCTED AND THE CARS WE EXPECT TO COME ON AND OFF THE SITE, BOTH DURING THE PEAK HOURS AND THROUGHOUT THE DAY. THIS IS A USE THAT WOULD HAVE A NEGLIGIBLE IMPACT ON ROUTE 17 ITSELF. THE DRIVEWAY OPERATES SAFELY AND EFFICIENTLY. WHAT WE'VE DONE, AND AGAIN, OBVIOUSLY ARE GOING THROUGH WITH THE NJDOT IS TO DESIGN OUR DRIVEWAY TO PROVIDE THAT SAFE AND EFFICIENT ACCESS, AND I THINK WE'VE DONE THAT SUCCESSFULLY HERE. AND THEN AGAIN, THERE'S THERE'S MULTIPLE DIFFERENT OPERATIONS ON THE SITE, BUT OBVIOUSLY A LARGE PART, AS IT'S BEEN TESTIFIED TO IS THE ACTUAL CAR SALES. WE OBVIOUSLY HAVE SOME SOME PORTION THAT ARE SERVICED AND THEN A FEW TRUCK TRIPS A DAY, WHETHER THAT'S PICKING UP VEHICLES OR DROPPING THEM OFF. 
          BUT AGAIN, I THINK THE ABILITY TO, TO SCHEDULE BOTH THE DELIVERIES AND THE, THE SERVICE ITSELF, A LARGE MAJORITY OF THE OPERATIONS ACTUALLY BEING CAR SALES THEMSELVES. AGAIN, I 
          [01:00:01]
THINK THIS SITE IS DESIGNED EFFICIENTLY. I THINK WE PROVIDE THE APPROPRIATE NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES, BOTH IN THE DISPLAY AREA AND IN THE ACTUAL PARKING LOT. THE LOADING SPACES WOULD OPERATE EFFICIENTLY, AND I THINK THE ACTUAL BUSINESS PLAN ITSELF FROM, FROM A TRAFFIC PERSPECTIVE, WOULD WORK SAFELY AND EFFICIENTLY. SO YOU HAD SORRY. NO, THAT WAS IT. YOU HAD INDICATED 29 TRIPS WERE THE PEAK. YES. THE PEAK. DOES THIS SITE HAVE ANY ISSUE? DOES THE INGRESS OR EGRESS POINTS HAVE ANY ISSUES SERVICING 29 TRIPS, 29 TRIPS PER HOUR? NO. AND WE CONDUCTED THAT ANALYSIS JUST TO ADD ONE MORE 29 TRIPS WAS DURING THE WEEKDAY PEAK. HOUR 38 WAS THE WEEKEND. THERE IS NOT AN ISSUE WITH WITH EITHER OF THOSE AND THE SITE ITSELF, DOES IT HAVE ANY ISSUE? ARE THERE ANY YOU YOU YOU MENTIONED THE THE SCHEDULING OF THE THE THE SCHEDULING OF THE DELIVERIES AND THE SCHEDULING OF THE. SERVICING. SO YOU KNOW THAT THAT CARMAX HAS CONTROL OVER THOSE TWO THOSE TWO ASPECTS. DO YOU SEE ANY SITE CIRCULATION ISSUE WITH 29 TRIPS DURING THE PEAK WEEKDAY AND 38 TRIPS DURING THE PEAK PEAK WEEKEND TIMES? NO. AND AGAIN, WE'VE CONDUCTED THAT ANALYSIS AGAIN, WE HAVE AN APPLICATION IN WITH THE DOT, AND THEY HAVE NOT FLAGGED ANY ISSUES WITH THE DRIVEWAY OR THE THE TRAFFIC VOLUME INTO AND OUT OF THE SITE. AND I AGAIN, I THINK THE DRIVE AISLES, THE PARKING SPACES THEMSELVES WOULD OPERATE SAFELY AND EFFICIENTLY. THE FACT THAT WE HAVE COMPLIANT DRIVE AISLES, COMPLIANT PARK CUSTOMER PARKING SPACES, EVERYTHING COMPLIES WITH THE CODE. YES. I'M SORRY TO INTERRUPT. CAN WE JUST CLARIFY WHAT PEAK HOURS ARE AGAIN? SURE. THE SO THE ACTUAL HOUR, THE ROADWAY PEAK HOUR, I'LL CALL IT ON ROUTE 17 DURING THE WEEK IS FROM 445 TO 545. SO THAT'S WHEN YOU SEE THE MOST VOLUME OF TRAFFIC ON ROUTE 17 NORTH DURING THE WEEKEND. IT IS 11 A.M. TO NOON. SO AGAIN, ON THE WEEKEND, THAT'S WHEN YOU'RE GOING TO SEE THE MOST AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC VOLUME. YOU'RE EXPECTING 2029 IN AND OUTS BETWEEN 445 AND 545 FROM YOUR LOT. YES. FOR 29 TOTAL TRIPS. 29. YEAH. AND 14 AND 15 OUT ON AVERAGE. CORRECT. BETWEEN 445 AND 545 IN AND OUT OF YOUR LOT. CORRECT? CORRECT. AND WHAT WE DO IS WE RUN OUR ANALYSIS AND WE WE TAKE THE TRIP GENERATION, THE PEAK HOUR TRIP GENERATION, SO THAT THE 29 VEHICLES AND WE PUT THAT ON TOP OF THE ROADWAY PEAK HOUR. SO EVEN IF OUR PEAK HOUR IS 29 VEHICLES, AND IT MIGHT HAPPEN SLIGHTLY BEFORE OR AFTER 445, MAYBE IT STARTS AT FIVE OR AT SIX. THE THE HIGHEST AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC INTO AND OUT OF OUR SITE WILL BE 29 VEHICLES DURING THE WEEK. WHAT WE DO IS WE TAKE THAT AND PUT IT ON TOP OF THE ROADWAY PEAK HOUR TO GET OUR WORST CASE SCENARIO CONDITION. SO IF THOSE TWO TIME PERIODS DID OVERLAP AND THEY BOTH HAPPENED AT 445 TO 545, WHAT IS THE THE RESULTS OF THE ANALYSIS. SO IT'S THE MOST WORST CASE SCENARIO. YES. 
          BECAUSE THAT SOUNDS LIKE A LOT IN AN HOUR. THAT'S KIND OF DEALING WITH PEOPLE COMING AFTER WORK IS WHAT I'M GETTING CORRECT. YES. OKAY. AND THAT'S YOUR, YOU KNOW, FOR MOST DEVELOPMENTS, YOUR TYPICAL PEAK, ANY SORT OF RETAIL OR, OR COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT PEOPLE GENERALLY WOULD GO TO AFTER THEIR TYPICAL 9 TO 5 WORKDAY. BUT YES, TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, THAT IS THE THE WORST CASE SCENARIO. AND CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHEN THE CARS OR THE CAR CARRIERS EXIT ONTO 17? YOU KNOW, NORTHBOUND THERE IS A SHOULDER? IS EVERYBODY GOING TO BE PULLING INTO THE SHOULDER BEFORE THEY'RE MERGING? BECAUSE THE MERGING LANE, IT LOOKS LIKE IT STARTS JUST VERY CLOSE TO WHERE THE DRIVEWAY IS. YES. SO SO WE WANTED TO TAKE THAT DRIVEWAY AND OBVIOUSLY PUSH IT AS FAR SOUTH ON OUR PROPERTY AS WE POSSIBLY CAN, JUST STARTING WITH THE DRIVEWAY ITSELF, THE THE RADII AND THE ISLAND IN THE MIDDLE. WE CALL THAT A PORKCHOP ISLAND, THE LITTLE TRIANGLE, THOSE ARE EFFICIENT TO GET BOTH CARS AND TRUCKS OUT. THEY WOULD EGRESS THE SITE. THEY WOULD LIKELY BE IN THE THE EXIT LANE ONTO RAMAPO AND THEN THEY WOULD HAVE TO MERGE OVER. THEY HAVE ABOUT 650 700FT TO DO SO. AND AGAIN, THIS THE LOCATION OF THE DRIVEWAY IS THE FURTHEST AWAY FROM THAT EXIT THAT WE POSSIBLY COULD HAVE IT. SO THAT'S OBVIOUSLY WHERE FROM A TRAFFIC PERSPECTIVE WE WANTED TO PUT IT. 
          SO IT'S WHERE THE IS THAT WHERE THE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION COMES IN TO SAY WHETHER THERE'S ENOUGH ROOM FOR, YOU KNOW, THIS TO HAPPEN WHERE CARS ARE COMING IN AND, OH, SORRY, CARS ARE COMING IN, CARS ARE COMING IN EXACTLY WHAT WE CALL A WEAVE, A WEAVE. THAT'S WHERE THE THE DOT WOULD LOOK, OBVIOUSLY LOOKS AT THE PLANS, THE TRIP GENERATION, PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING. I WENT OVER AND AGAIN WE RECEIVED A REVIEW LETTER FROM THEM. THEY HAD SOME VERY MINOR COMMENTS, BUT NOTHING AS FAR AS THE DRIVEWAY, LOCATION OR GEOMETRY. AND HONESTLY, IN DOING HUNDREDS OF PROJECTS ON DOT ROADS, THIS IS WHERE THEY WOULD TELL YOU TO 
          [01:05:03]
PUT IT AS FAR SOUTH ON THE PROPERTY AS YOU COULD POSSIBLY. AND WHAT ABOUT IN THE MORNINGS? BECAUSE THAT IS WHEN A LOT OF CARS ARE PRETTY, VERY I MEAN, JUST ANECDOTALLY STACKED UP TO GET ONTO MACARTHUR BECAUSE A LOT OF THERE ARE A LOT OF BUSINESSES ON MACARTHUR. SO PEOPLE ARE GOING NORTH. THEY'RE GETTING OFF AT, YOU KNOW, AT MACARTHUR, BUT ALSO PERHAPS AT THE NEXT, YOU KNOW, THE NEXT SITE. SO THE REASON THE REASON WE DIDN'T TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE MORNING IS NOT BECAUSE OF THE ROADWAY VOLUMES. IT'S THE CARMAX TRAFFIC VOLUMES. THEY'RE TYPICALLY TYPICALLY FAR LESS IN THE MORNING THAN THEY WOULD BE IN THE AFTERNOON OR ON A WEEKEND. THE WEEKEND IS THE BUSIEST PEAK HOUR TIME PERIOD FOR THEM, SO IT'S NOT NECESSARILY THAT THE TRAFFIC VOLUMES ON ROUTE 17 ARE LOWER, IT'S THAT OUR TRAFFIC VOLUMES ARE LOWER. THAT MAKES SENSE. OKAY. AND THAT'S DEFINITELY A STOP SIGN. THEY'RE COMING OUT OF THE PARKING LOT. YES. I TAKE THIS EXIT LIKE MULTIPLE TIMES A DAY. THIS IS HORRENDOUS. EXIT. 
          YEAH. TO PUT NO OFFENSE, TO PUT SOMETHING LIKE THIS HERE, IT FEELS LIKE IT'S ANOTHER CHICK FIL A HOULIHAN'S ISSUE OVER IN RAMSEY. I MEAN, YOU CAN'T FORCE SOMEONE TO USE A STOP SIGN, BUT AS LONG AS THERE'S ONE THERE, I UNDERSTAND THE CONCERN. THIS OBVIOUSLY IS A A FAR LESS TRAFFIC. I KNOW THE CHICK FIL A AS WELL. FAR LESS TRAFFIC GENERATED, FAR LESS TRAFFIC GENERATOR THAN SOMETHING LIKE A FAST FOOD RESTAURANT OR EVEN SOME OTHER RETAIL DEVELOPMENTS. 
          IT WOULD BE USELESS. SO YES, LIKE HOW DO WE HANDLE CAR OFFLOADING ON THE SHOULDER? WELL, THEIR TESTIMONY EARLIER WAS RIGHT THERE. TESTIMONY EARLIER WAS THEY DO THEY'RE GOING TO GET FINED. YEAH. 100%. NO NO NO I KNOW IT'S A PROBLEM. NO UNLOADING ON THE SHOULDER. 
          ABSOLUTELY NO ENFORCEMENT ISSUE. YEAH. AND NOT ONLY THAT I WANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT THERE'S NO OFFLOADING ON THE SHOULDER. THERE'S NO QUEUING ON THE SHOULDER. THERE'S NO YOU KNOW, IF A TRUCK IF A TRUCK CARRIER ARRIVES OUTSIDE OF BUSINESS HOURS, THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED TO QUEUE ON, ON ROUTE 17. WE ALSO DON'T WANT VEHICLES OR TRUCK CARRIERS QUEUING UP ON LOCAL ROADS. IF THEY GET THERE DURING OFF HOURS, WE DON'T WANT THEM OFFLOADED ON OTHER OTHER TOWNSHIP ROADS OR COUNTY ROADS. YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T HAVE VEHICLES GETTING OFFLOADED ON WEST RAMAPO AVE OR ANY, ANY, ANY ADJACENT AREAS. I DON'T WANT I DON'T WANT TO SEE A TRUCK CARRIER ON MACARTHUR BOULEVARD, ON RIDGE ROAD, ON BEEHIVE COURT, ANYWHERE I THEY HAVE TO MAKE SURE. AND THIS IS DIRECTED TO YOU AND YOUR CLIENT. YOU HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT THESE ARE. YOU GUYS CONTROL THE DELIVERIES. THEY HAVE TO BE WITHIN THOSE HOURS. IF A GUY GETS THERE TWO HOURS, TWO HOURS EARLY, HE'S GOT TO. I DON'T CARE WHERE HE GOES. GO TO NEW YORK, GO TO A TRUCK STOP UP IN NEW YORK. THEY'RE NOT TO PARK ON TOWNSHIP ROADS WHILE THEY'RE WAITING FOR CARMAX TO OPEN. IS THAT UNDERSTOOD? YES, SIR. YEAH. THANK YOU. SO HOW WOULD THAT HAPPEN? IF THEY SAW SOMEBODY PARKED ON THE HIGHWAY? THEY WOULD CALL THE LOCAL POLICE. 
          CORRECT. OKAY. YEP. OKAY. DOES THAT CONCLUDE YOUR TESTIMONY? YEAH. UNLESS YOU HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR ME. NO. ALL RIGHT. ANY BOARD MEMBERS HAVE ANY OTHER FURTHER QUESTIONS? MR. KELLY, I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT I REVIEWED THE TRAFFIC STUDY AND FIND THAT IT'S BEEN PREPARED IN ACCORDANCE WITH STANDARD ENGINEERING PRACTICES. THE TESTIMONY TONIGHT WAS THAT THE TOTAL TRIPS PER DAY ARE ABOUT ABOUT TEN TIMES WHAT THE PEAK HOUR TRAFFIC IS. IT'S ABOUT 10% OF THE PEAK HOUR. I'M SORRY, THE TOTAL TRIPS PER DAY. AND THAT'S WHAT I FOUND IN MY EXPERIENCE IN ALL MY YEARS REVIEWING TRAFFIC REPORTS AND, AND OBSERVING TRAFFIC PATTERNS THAT TYPICALLY YOUR PEAK HOUR TRAFFIC IS TYPICALLY ABOUT 10% OF THE TOTAL TRIPS PER DAY. AND THAT'S BEEN SHOWN IN THEIR TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDY IS PROVIDED AS PART OF THEIR TESTIMONY. I THINK THE BOARD HAS RAISED SOME VERY GOOD QUESTIONS. MY BIGGEST CONCERN IS VEHICLES PARKING OFF SITE. AND, YOU KNOW, WE'VE HAD THEIR COMMITMENT THAT THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT'S REALITY. OKAY. AND THAT'S ALL I HAVE. 
          OKAY. THANK YOU, MR. DICKERSON. I HAVE NO QUESTIONS. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. AND I AS I RECALL FROM LAST MEETING, THERE WAS TALK OF THIS WAS, YOU KNOW, THESE ARE THIRD PARTY DELIVERY TRUCKS THAT ARE COMING THAT YOU DON'T ALWAYS HAVE COMPLETE CONTROL OVER. I MEAN, THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT I JUST STUCK IN MY MIND. YOU KNOW, YOU TESTIMONY, THEY DO HAVE CONTROL OVER THE FLEET, WHETHER IT'S THEIR FLEET OR A THIRD PARTY FLEET. THEY ALL GO TO A A BEFORE THEY COME TO THE SITE, THEY GO TO ANOTHER LOCATION. AND THEN FROM THAT LOCATION, THEY'RE SENT OUT AND WE HAVE CODE. WE MY CLIENT HAS CODE OF CONDUCT STIPULATIONS. THAT IS, THAT THEIR FLEET, THIRD PARTY FLEETS HAVE TO ADHERE TO. AND IF THEY DON'T ADHERE TO THE THE 
          [01:10:05]
CONDITIONS, THEY'RE OUT. OKAY. OKAY. YES, I REMEMBER THAT ADHERE TO BEING A SPECIFIC TIME THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO COME BECAUSE WE SAID IT WAS SCHEDULED. SO I APOLOGIZE. I THINK HE JUST TESTIFIED THAT IT WAS GOING TO BE SCHEDULED FOR THE CAR CARRIERS TO COME. WELL, I MEAN, THEY'RE GOING TO WORK OUT TIMES FOR THEM TO GO, YOU KNOW, TO GO. THEY'RE NOT LIKE BETWEEN THESE HOURS. WHAT I UNDERSTOOD WAS THEIR SCHEDULE, LIKE THIS ONE CAR CARRIER A IS COMING AT 1 P.M. CAR CARRIER TWO IS COMING AT 3:00, CORRECT? OKAY. THANK YOU. I THINK THAT'S WHAT YOU WERE TRYING TO SAY. I KNOW BECAUSE ORIGINALLY IT WAS SAID WE CAN'T CONTROL THEM. 
          THEY CAN COME WHENEVER THEY WANT. NO. OKAY. THAT'S WHY SHE WAS ASKING. NO EXACT OPPOSITE NOW. OKAY. YEAH. NOT SO MUCH ABOUT THE TIME. JUST ABOUT THOSE THINGS ABOUT PARKING OFF SITE. THEY CAME TOO EARLY, YOU KNOW. WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO GO? SO I'M, YOU KNOW, I'M HOPING THAT THEY WILL HAVE THEY'LL FIGURE THAT OUT, BUT THAT IT'S NOT ON OUR NOT ON OUR ANCILLARY, NOT ON OUR ANCILLARY ROADS. YEAH. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. PERFECT. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU SO MUCH. ALL RIGHT. AT THIS TIME, WE WOULD LIKE TO OPEN THE MEETING TO THE PUBLIC. MOTION TO OPEN SECOND. OKAY. GEORGE AND MEGAN, IF ANYBODY WOULD LIKE TO COME AND ASK QUESTIONS OF OUR TRAFFIC EXPERT, MR. KENNEDY, NOW IS YOUR CHANCE. SO. SO THIS RIGHT NOW IS QUESTIONS OF MR. KENNEDY. COME ON UP. YEAH. ANYTHING TO DO WITH. YOU KNOW WHAT MR. KENNEDY TALKED ABOUT? TRAFFIC. DEBORAH DE SOTO, DEBORAHDESOCIO14 BEEHIVE COURT. WELCOME. THANK YOU. I WAS JUST WONDERING. THEY SAY YOU'RE GOING TO CONTROL LIKE, CAR CARRIERS, BUT WHO REALLY OVERSEES, LIKE, WHO IS GOING TO CALL IF THEY SEE A CAR CARRIER ON ROUTE 17? WHO'S GOING TO CALL IF THEY SEE A CAR CARRIER ON ONE OF THE BLOCKS LIKE YOU CAN PROMISE, BUT WHO REALLY OVERSEES IT AND MAKES YOU STICK TO THIS IS THE RULE. WELL, I CAN ANSWER THAT, MR. MEDINA, IF YOU WANT ME. YEAH, PLEASE. CARMAX. FIRST OF ALL, CARMAX TRUCKS ARE ALLOWED TO BE ON THE HIGHWAY AT ANY TIME THEY WANT. SO BESIDES THAT POINT, YOU KNOW, EVERY SINGLE APPLICATION THAT I'VE PRESENTED OR I PRESENTED, THERE'S ALWAYS SOME TYPE OF CONDITION OR THERE'S SOME TYPE OF CONDITIONS THAT ARE. IMPLEMENTED AS PART OF AN APPROVAL. AND IT'S, IT'S OBVIOUSLY THE APPLICANT'S JOB TO ADHERE TO THOSE CONDITIONS. AND IF THEY DON'T ADHERE TO THOSE CONDITIONS AND WHETHER IT'S THE ZONING OFFICER OR IT'S A MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC CALLS IT IN POLICE DEPARTMENT, POLICE DEPARTMENT, FIRE DEPARTMENT, BUILDING DEPARTMENT, IT'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE RECTIFIED OR HAS TO HAVE TO BE DEALT WITH. SO I THINK THAT'S JUST LIKE ANY OTHER CONDITION FOR ANY OTHER APPROVAL. THAT'S JUST THE NATURE. AND INCLUDING IF MY IF MY CLIENT REALIZES A TRUCK CAME TOO EARLY AND THEY, YOU KNOW, THEY BROWBEAT THEM ON THE PHONE SAYING, WHAT DID I TELL YOU? YOU CAN'T DO THAT. THEY HAVE THAT SAME RESPONSIBILITY. 
          THEY'RE JUST NOT GOING TO ALWAYS BE THE ONE THAT NOTICES IT FIRST. OR SO I THINK THAT WOULD BE THE ANSWER. I BELIEVE THAT MR. ESCOBAR, AT THE LAST MEETING, SAID THAT THERE'D BE A PROPER SITE MANAGER, THAT THAT IT WOULD BE HIS RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT'S MET AND THAT IF THE PUBLIC HAS AN ISSUE WITH THAT, OR THE NEIGHBORS HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THAT, THEY COULD CONTACT HIM. ABSOLUTELY. YEP. THANK YOU. AND THEN IF THEN IF THAT'S NOT SUFFICIENT, THEN YOU WOULD CONTACT THE TOWNSHIP AND THEN WE WOULD GET INVOLVED. OKAY. 
          THANK YOU, THANK YOU. IS THERE ANYBODY ELSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO COME UP? OKAY. SANDRA WEBER SANDRAWEBR18 BEEHIVE COURT. WHEN YOU SAY 838 TRIPS ON THE WEEKEND DURING PEAK HOURS, DOES THAT INCLUDE LIKE IS A IS A TRIP CONSIDERED ONE CAR OR IT CAN BE CAR OR DROP OFF VEHICLES, WHATEVER THEY'RE CALLED. THE CARRIERS CAN BE EITHER. SO A TRIP IS EITHER A CAR COMING INTO THE SITE OR A CAR COMING OUT OF THE SITE. WHEN I SAY 38 TRIPS, THAT WAS 19 IN AND 19 OUT ON AVERAGE. AND THAT COULD BE ANY VEHICLE, A CAR CARRIER, A PASSENGER VEHICLE, SOMEBODY GOING TO THE SERVICE, YOU KNOW, ANYWHERE REALLY ON THE SITE. OKAY. AND MY OTHER QUESTION WITH REGARDS TO TRAFFIC, SO LET'S SAY, BECAUSE IT'S HAPPENED BEFORE, WHERE THERE'S A BAD CAR CRASH ON THE HIGHWAY AND YOU HAVE TO BE REROUTED, YOU KNOW, OFF OF 17 AT SOME POINT, AND IT'S GETTING CLOSE TO AND IT'S SUNDAY NIGHT AND IT'S, YOU KNOW, TRAFFIC STARTS TO MOVE. NOW IT'S ALMOST 6:00 AND YOU HAVE A CARMAX CARRIER COMING IN. ARE THEY GOING TO BE RESPECTFUL NOT TO DROP OFF CARS? BECAUSE THE INITIAL TESTIMONY WAS THAT IT TAKES ABOUT TWO 
          [01:15:03]
HOURS TO UNLOAD A WHOLE CAR CARRIER. SO WHAT WOULD BE WOULD THAT BE RESPECTED? THE FACT THAT IT'S, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO OPERATE AFTER 6 P.M. AND NOW WITH SOMETHING THAT WAS OUT OF THEIR CONTROL, A CAR CRASH, AND NOW IT'S CLOSE TO SIX, ARE THEY GOING TO HONOR THAT AND MOVE ON AND BRING THE WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IN THAT SITUATION? THEY HAVE TO ADHERE TO NOON DAY. OKAY. SO IT'S NOT THEIR FAULT. IT'S NOT THEIR FAULT THAT IT'S LATE. BUT LET'S SAY THERE'S A CAR CRASH AND IT HAPPENS TO BE DONE BY BY NOW, THEY COULD GET THERE AND MAYBE GET 5 OR 6 CARS UNLOADED, BUT BEFORE 8:00, BUT IT'S THE STIPULATION WAS NOON TO EIGHT AND THEN NOT PAST MIDNIGHT. I THOUGHT IT WAS SIX ON SUNDAY, NOON TO EIGHT ON SUNDAYS. SO WHAT HAPPENS NOW? I'M SORRY. CAR ACCIDENT, 17 GET SHUT DOWN. CAR CARRIER GOES AROUND, GETS ONTO THE PROPERTY. 730 STARTS UNLOADING A CARD. 8:00 SHOWS UP. HE HAS TO STOP. DOES HE SIT IDLE TILL THE FOLLOWING MORNING? I MEAN, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MY UNDERSTANDING IS NOON TO EIGHT, NO ACTIVITIES AFTER 8:00 PERIOD OF TIME. AND THAT'S THE ONLY WAY WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO THIS. OH, TO MAKE IT AS SIMPLE AS POSSIBLE AND CLEAR CUT AS POSSIBLE TO NOON TO EIGHT. IF THERE'S AN ACCIDENT, THERE'S NOON TO EIGHT. THEY CAN'T THEY CAN'T BE THERE AT 10:00. UNLOADING VEHICLES. AND HOW WOULD THAT BE MONITORED THEN? BECAUSE THERE ARE A LOT OF ACCIDENTS. THAT WAS A GOOD POINT. SHE BROUGHT UP BY THE PUBLIC. SOMEONE ON BEEHIVE COURT'S GOING TO CALL THE POLICE AT 801. NO, I JUST WANTED TO. BUT MY I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, IS HE GOING TO SIT IN THAT LOT IDLING ALL NIGHT LONG TILL THE FOLLOWING MORNING? NO. SO HE'S GOING TO TAKE HIS ONE CAR OFF SO HE CAN GO BACK TO THE CENTRAL LOCATION WHERE HE CAME FROM AND WAIT TILL THE MORNING. SO THERE'LL BE NO IDLING ON SITE? NO. AFTER IDLING? NO. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. SO THAT'S A FAIR CONDITION, GUYS. WE CAN CERTAINLY ADD THAT. OKAY. 
          ALL RIGHT. SO. OH, PLEASE. STEP BY. NO. COME ON OVER. HI. MY NAME IS JIM. STUDYING. THAT'S STEGINK. I LIVE AT 114 ISLAND ROAD. IF I RECALL CORRECTLY, ABOUT THE TRUCKS GOING THROUGH THE TWO LOADING AND UNLOADING LANES, THERE'S PLENTY OF ROOM FOR THEM TO MAKE A CURVE THROUGH THE PARKING LOT AND BACK OUT ONTO 717 WITHOUT BACKING UP. IS THAT CORRECT? YES. THEY WOULD NOT BE BACKING UP ONTO ROUTE 17. OKAY. AND IF THE CAR CARRIERS CAN DO THAT, THEN ANY OTHER SHORTER TRUCKS CAN AS WELL. SO THERE SHOULD BE NO BACKUP BEEPERS GOING OFF ANYTIME. REALLY? CORRECT. WHAT I'LL TESTIFY TO IS THAT THEY CAN MAKE IT AROUND THE SITE WITHOUT BACKING UP, WHETHER THEY NEED TO BACK UP A COUPLE FEET TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE IN THE LOADING SPACE IF THEY PULL UP TOO FAR. I DON'T WANT TO SAY THAT THERE WILL NEVER BE A CAR CARRIER BACKING UP, BUT THEY CAN MAKE IT AROUND THE ENTIRE SITE WITHOUT BACKING UP. OKAY. 
          AND THEN THE LAST THING WAS, IF I RECALL CORRECTLY TOO, I KNOW THE THAT ALL ALL TRAFFIC HAD TO BE DONE BEFORE MIDNIGHT, ALL LOADING AND UNLOADING. THE LAST ONE THAT COULD ARRIVE WOULD BE AT 10:00 DURING THE WEEK. IS THAT CORRECT? YES. AND ON SUNDAY, BY MIDNIGHT, YES. WE HAVE TWO CARS UNLOAD AND IT ONLY TAKES 45 MINUTES. BUT WHEN WE GET THERE AT 11 IT'LL BE IT'LL BE GONE BY MIDNIGHT. OKAY. AND THE SAME THING ON SUNDAY. CORRECT. IT'S 6:00. IT'S A HARD STOP AT 8 P.M. RIGHT. OKAY. THANK YOU, THANK YOU. OKAY. SEEING NO OTHER RESIDENTS COMING UP TO THE MICROPHONE. MOTION TO CLOSE. CLOSE. THANK YOU. PUBLIC COMMENT, DO WE? YES, UNLESS THE BOARD HAS ANY OTHER QUESTIONS. I HAVE NO FURTHER WITNESSES. OKAY. OKAY. I ACTUALLY HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION FOR THIS WITNESS, THOUGH. NO, BUT I JUST REALIZED THAT I DIDN'T REALLY ASK THE FULLY ASK YOU WHEN THE CAR CARRIER EXITS BECAUSE I MENTIONED PULLING INTO THE ONTO THE SHOULDER. SO IS THERE DEFINITELY ENOUGH BECAUSE I WAS THINKING WHEN YOU CAME THAT WE WOULD BE WATCHING IT ON YOUR, YOU KNOW, LAPTOP ONTO SCREEN. SO IT'S, I'M USING THE MAP HERE, BUT WHEN YOU PULL OUT AND THE CAR CARRIER COMES OUT, HOW FAR THE QUESTION IS HOW FAR OUT IS THAT PERSON DRIVING? WILL THEY EXCLUSIVELY STAY IN THE SHOULDER? WILL THEY 
          [01:20:01]
BE IN THE DECELERATION LANE? THEY WILL BE EXCLUSIVELY IN THE SHOULDER AND THE RIGHT MOST LANE SO THEY CAN GET FROM THE DRIVEWAY, GET INTO THE SHOULDER AND THEN BE IN THE RIGHTMOST LANE. PRETTY MUCH RIGHT THERE IS WHERE THE EXIT LANE ONTO RAMAPO IS. OKAY, OKAY. SIMILAR WITH VEHICLES LEAVING THE SITE, BUT OBVIOUSLY THE CAR CARRIER IS NOT GOING TO NEED TO SWING INTO. THEY WON'T NEED THE WHAT I'LL CALL THE MIDDLE LANE OF ROUTE 17. OKAY. THEY WON'T NEED THE MIDDLE, BUT THEY MIGHT NEED THAT THAT RIGHT LANE. THEY WILL NEED THE RIGHT LANE. OKAY, SO THE SHOULDER AND THE RIGHT LANE, HOPEFULLY THEY USE IT. YOU CAN'T FORCE THEM. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. I JUST WANTED TO GET THAT ON THE RECORD. OKAY. SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TESTIMONY. ABSOLUTELY. AND AT THIS TIME, WE ARE GOING TO OPEN THE MEETING UP TO THE PUBLIC FOR ANY FURTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE FOR ANY OF THE WITNESSES OR ANY OF THE TESTIMONY THAT WE HAVE HEARD OVER THE PAST THREE MEETINGS? MOTION TO OPEN. 
          SECOND, GEORGE AND TRACY. THANK YOU. OKAY. JUST GIVE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS. HOW ARE YOU DOING? RYAN WEBER, WEBER18B HIGH COURT. AFTER HEARING THE TESTIMONY, IT APPEARS THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE WORK IN THE BUILDING WITH THE THE SERVICE BEING DONE. SO THAT'S WHY THEY HAVE THE RETAINING WALL BEHIND THAT BUILDING AND AROUND THE ON THE FRONT SIDE. BUT THERE'S ALSO GOING TO BE WORK WITH THE UNLOADING AND THE LOADING OF TRUCKS. THAT'S ALSO WORK THAT'S GOING TO BE ON THIS SIDE WHERE THERE'S GOING TO BE A RETAINING WALL. IT'S GOING TO BE A SIX FOOT FENCE. I KNOW THEY THEY CHANGED THEIR HOURS OF DROP OFF. AND I APPRECIATE THAT. 12:00 YOU KNOW, IT'S STILL 12:00. IT'S STILL 12:00. THAT'S PRETTY LATE TO HAVE THESE CARS LOADING AND UNLOADING. SO IS IT POSSIBLE TO EXTEND THE THE RETAINING WALL ALL THE WAY TO THE WHOLE PROPERTY SO THAT THE PEOPLE ON THE SOUTH SIDE, YOU KNOW, DON'T HAVE TO HEAR THE NOISE BECAUSE THERE'S GOING TO BE A LOT OF NOISE. AND THAT'S WORK BEING DONE. IT'S NOT JUST BEING DONE IN THE BUILDING. YEAH. THAT WAS THAT WE I THINK THAT AND RYAN LAST WEEK MENTIONED THAT TO MR. CHAN. AND HE BASICALLY STATED THAT IT WAS IT WAS ALREADY THEY ALREADY AGREED TO CHANGE THE HOURS. BUT 12:00 AT NIGHT IS STILL LATE TO BE HEARING THAT NOISE, ESPECIALLY WITH THEM. THEY HAVE KIDS, YOU KNOW, UPCOMING KID, YOU KNOW, GETTING DELIVERED. 
          OKAY. SO IS THERE A REASON THE RETAINING WALL CANNOT BE EXTENDED BASED UPON ITS ABILITY TO ACT AS A SOUND BARRIER? AND THAT MAY NOT BE FOR YOU? THAT SOUNDS LIKE AN ENGINEERING QUESTION, BUT I'M JUST GOING TO SAY THE SAME. THANK YOU. SO THAT SEEMED TO BE A QUESTION. 
          COUNSEL. CAN THE RETAINING WALL BE EXTENDED SOUTHWARD? AND MIKE, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG IN MY DIRECTIONS OR PHRASING THE QUESTION ALONG THE REAR. IT'S REAR LINE TO FURTHER ACT AS A SOUND BARRIER. IS THAT FAIR WAY TO SAY IT? YES, BUT THERE'S ALREADY. AND MIKE, WOULD THAT BE A GOOD IDEA? BAD IDEA. DOES IT HAVE I THINK THE RETAINING WALL IS GOING TO RETAIN SOIL. 
          SO IT'S IT'S TO TRANSFER TRANSITION FROM ONE GRADE TO ANOTHER. THEY DON'T NEED A RETAINING WALL BECAUSE IT MEETS GRADE AT THAT LOCATION. BUT THEY DO PROPOSE A SIX FOOT FENCE ALL THE WAY TO THE PROPERTY LINE. GOT IT. SO THE QUESTION IS CAN YOU UPGRADE THAT TO A. OH GO AHEAD. I'M SORRY, BUT BEHIND THE BUILDING THEY DO HAVE AN EXTENDED WALL, I GUESS ABOVE THE A WALL ABOVE THE RETAINING WALL, I BELIEVE. RIGHT. THAT'S FOR SOUND. A SOUND BARRIER BETWEEN THE BUILDING AND THE RESIDENCE. WELL I DON'T THINK IT WAS MEANT TO BE A SOUND BARRIER. I DON'T MEAN TO GIVE I DON'T KNOW, THAT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THAT WAS MEANT TO BE A SOUND BARRIER. I THINK I THINK IT MAYBE I'M SAYING IT WRONG ON C5. IT SAYS LIMIT OF PROPOSED CONCRETE RETAINING WALL. IT DOES COME AROUND THAT CORNER A LITTLE BIT UNLESS I'M READING IT WRONG. RIGHT. WELL, IT DEFINITELY ENDS. BUT MIKE IS SAYING THAT THE RETAINING WALL. I THINK WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS IT DOES CONTINUE, MIKE. AND MAYBE I THINK THIS IS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. DOESN'T THAT LIMIT OF PROPOSED CONCRETE RETAINING WALL. DOESN'T IT GO SEEM TO GO. MIKE. IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT C5 ACROSS MOST OF THE BACK OF THE PROPERTY, IT WAS ONLY FOUR FEET HIGH. IT DOES. IS THAT WHERE IT'S ONLY FOUR FEET HIGH? IT'S AVERAGE LIKE THREE AND A HALF, FOUR, 4.5FT HIGH. THEN IT STOPS. I DON'T HAVE A I DIDN'T SCALE IT, BUT IT LOOKS LIKE THE RETAINING WALL STOPS ABOUT 100FT BEFORE THE SOUTH PROPERTY LINE. OKAY. I MEAN, AND THEN THERE'S THE SIX FOOT VINYL FENCE ON TOP OF THAT. OKAY, SO I THINK I'M, I WOULD LIKE, WE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE BEHIND THE BUILDING, THERE'S A HIGHER WALL ABOVE THE RETAINING WALL, RIGHT, I BELIEVE. AND INSTEAD OF HAVING A SIX FOOT VINYL FENCE, IT'D BE NICE TO HAVE LIKE A CORNER, MAYBE A LITTLE BIT MORE SOUNDPROOF TYPE OF STRUCTURE 
          [01:25:05]
BACK THERE. WE DON'T USE IT, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T BELIEVE IT'S THERE'S FENCING THERE SIGNIFICANT. THERE'S SIGNIFICANT LANDSCAPING. MY CLIENT'S GONE OUT OF ITS WAY TO, TO ADDRESS AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. BUT THERE'S, IT'S NOT EVEN, IT'S A RETAINING WALL. IT'S NOT EVEN A SOUND WALL. THAT'S THAT THEY'RE ASKING TO BE EXTENDED, WHICH ISN'T, IS THE PURPOSE OF THE WALL IN THE IN THE NORTHEAST CORNER WHERE THE CARS ARE BEING PREPPED? DO I HAVE THAT RIGHT? CORRECT. IS THE PURPOSE OF THAT WALL. WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THAT WALL? I THINK IT'S MORE SECURITY THAN NOISE BECAUSE NO, THERE'S NO WORK BEING DONE OUTSIDE. ALL WORK IS DONE INSIDE, RIGHT? THE WORK IS DONE INSIDE AND THE CARS ARE ON DECK. CORRECT. IN THAT AREA. AND SO BUT OKAY, SO THAT THAT'S THAT'S THE WALL, A RETAINING WALL OR IS THAT A SECURITY WALL? THEY HAVE. SO ON THE NORTH PART OF THE SITE, THE NORTHEAST PART OF THE SITE, THEY HAVE A RETAINING WALL. AND THEN ON TOP OF THAT, THEY HAVE THE MASONRY WALL, WHICH MASONRY WALL IS FOR SECURITY. AND I'M SURE SCREENING. OKAY. SO THE THE TESTIMONY ABOUT NO, NO, HOLD ON, HOLD ON. SO THE HEAVY LINE MIC IN C5 IS THE RETAINING WALL AND THE SOMEWHAT LIGHTER LINE LOCATED JUST WEST OF IT IS THE SECURITY WALL. MASONRY WALL. YEAH. MASONRY SECURITY WALL. 
          OKAY. IF YOU LOOK AT THE LIDAR, THERE'S A LIDAR LINE THAT RUNS. YOU KNOW, WHERE THE TRASH ENCLOSURE IS. THERE'S A LIDAR LINE THAT SAYS LIMIT SIX FOOT TALL MASONRY WALL. AND THAT SHOWS WHERE THE WALL TIES INTO. THE TRASH ENCLOSURE AREA. OKAY, SO ON THE NORTH SIDE, THERE'S TWO WALLS. THERE'S A RETAINING WALL, AND THEN THERE'S A MASONRY WALL. YES, ON THE SOUTH SIDE IT APPEARS THAT THERE'S A RETAINING WALL THAT TERMINATES ABOUT 100FT FROM THE SOUTHERN PROPERTY LINE. CORRECT. OKAY. AND I SUPPOSE THE QUESTION IS, CAN A SECURITY WALL OR A SOUND ATTENUATION WALL OR OTHER WALL? BE PURPOSED ALONG THE LENGTH OF THE. EASTERN PROPERTY LINE FROM THE CENTRAL POINT SOUTHWARDS? CORRECT. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? IS IT A DOABLE THING? IS IT A PREFERABLE, A DESIRABLE THING? I DON'T KNOW. ENGINEERING WISE. IT'S IT'S DOABLE, BUT IT'S YOU KNOW, THEY'RE PROPOSING A SIX FOOT VINYL FENCE TO SERVE, AS I ASSUME, FOR SECURITY AND FOR A BUFFER AND FOR, FOR NOISE ATTENUATION, I GUESS. AN INCH AND A QUARTER. SO THAT'S THE PROPOSAL. OKAY. SANDRA WEBER 18 BEEHIVE COURT. SO JUST A COMMENT. SO AS YOU CAN HEAR THAT WE'VE TESTIFIED FOR THE LAST THREE MEETINGS IS NOISE. NOISE IS OUR BIGGEST CONCERN. 
          AND NOW THAT I'M HEARING ON SUNDAYS, IT'S GOING TO BE EVEN MORE DROP OFFS DURING HOPEFULLY THE BLUE LAW WILL DEVIATE THAT FROM HAPPENING. BUT I'M JUST SAYING, OUR BIGGEST CONCERN IS NOISE, NOISE, NOISE. THAT'S ALL WE TALK ABOUT. AND OUR NEIGHBORS THAT ARE NOT HERE TODAY ARE GOING TO BE HAVING A BABY SOON. SO THAT'S OUR BIGGEST CONCERN. SO IF THERE WAS A RETAINING WALL, SOMETHING SOUNDPROOFING, SOMETHING, I KNOW YOU'RE GOING TO ADD TREES AND WE APPRECIATE THAT. BUT TREES ARE NOT BUFFERS. THE WINTER, IT'S VERY NOISY WHEN ALL THOSE TREES LOSE THEIR LEAVES. SO THAT'S JUST OUR BIGGEST CONCERN IS THE NOISE. 
          SO THAT'S MY COMMENT. THANK YOU. DEBORAH, FOR DESOCIO14 BEEHIVE COURT. YES, WE WERE JUST WONDERING. I MEAN, ANY WALL THAT COULD BE MADE TALLER TO HELP WITH SOUND SO THAT WE DON'T SEE AND ALSO IS THE BUFFER ZONE, ARE THE TREES GOING TO REMAIN THERE OR ARE MORE TREES GOING TO BE TAKEN DOWN? BECAUSE THEN IN THE WINTER WE STARE RIGHT AT IT. AT LEAST I KNOW THEY PROPOSED PUTTING UP SOME TALLER, HOPEFULLY TALLER BUSHES THAT STAY GREEN ALL YEAR LONG SO WE DON'T LOOK AT IT FROM OUR DECKS. ANYTHING THAT THEY COULD DO TO BLOCK THE SOUND TO BLOCK THE VIEW WOULD BE APPRECIATED. OKAY. THANK YOU. SO THE TESTIMONY WAS, 
          [01:30:07]
AS I RECALL, THAT YOU WERE GOING TO BE ADDING SOME. WE'VE SUBMITTED A LANDSCAPING. YES, YES, I THINK WE'VE GONE ABOVE THAT. WE'VE MET THE 74 TREE REQUIREMENT FOR REPLACEMENT. I THINK WE WENT ABOVE AND BEYOND THAT WITH OUR TREE, WITH THE TREES. AND I BELIEVE ALSO MR. KELLY HAD REQUESTED THAT WE LOOK INTO POSSIBLY STAGGERING THE TREES AND ADDING A BERM. 
          AND A DOUBLE ROW. A DOUBLE ROW. RIGHT, RIGHT. SO. I REMEMBER, YEAH, THERE'S A FENCE THERE. I MEAN, THERE IS A THERE IS A SIX FOOT FENCE. ARE THERE OTHER MATERIALS THAT CAN BE USED? WHAT'S THE FENCE MADE OUT OF. I'M SORRY. I BELIEVE IT'S A FINAL VINYL VINYL VINYL FENCE. 
          YEAH. IT'S A VINYL FENCE. ARE THERE DIFFERENT MATERIALS THAT COULD BE USED THAT WOULD BE MORE SUBSTANTIAL? MAYBE IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE MASONRY. CAN YOU BRING THE VINYL FENCE UP THE SIDE? SAY AGAIN, SAY AGAIN. I'M SORRY. RETURN THE VINYL FENCE UP THE SIDE. SO CONTINUE TO THE SOUTH. PROPERTY LINE. CORRECT. AND COME BACK TOWARD 17 AND AND THEN HEAD WESTWARD. 
          RIGHT. CREATE A RETURN IS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING CORRECT? YOU MEAN HEAD WHAT DIRECTION? HEAD WEST ON THE PROPERTY. RIGHT. SO YOU HAVE THE RETAINING WALL WHERE IT ENDS, RIGHT. AND THEN THERE'S BASICALLY FENCE THAT'S RUNNING FROM THE END OF THE RETAINING WALL. I MEAN IT'S RUNNING THE WHOLE SIDE. BUT IF THE RETAINING WALL ENDS TO THE TO THE SOUTH. YEAH. SOUTH. AND MY, MY CLIENT JUST I DON'T WANT TO GROW UP, BUT MY CLIENT JUST ADVISED ME IS THAT WE, WHAT WE COULD AGREE TO IS IF ON THE WHERE THAT IS FOR THE FENCE AND THE ALONG THE EAST PROPERTY LINE, WE COULD INCREASE THAT TO EIGHT FEET, BUT WE NEED A VARIANCE FOR IT. IF THE BOARD SO CHOOSES TO APPROVE THAT VARIANCE, WE WOULD AGREE TO AN EIGHT FOOT FENCE, AN EIGHT FOOT VINYL VINYL FENCE ALONG THAT. WELL, THERE WAS TWO. OH I'M SORRY. 
          IT SOUNDED LIKE THERE WERE TWO ISSUES. THE FIRST WAS THE LENGTH OF IT AND THE RETURN, AND THE SECOND IS NOW BEING DISCUSSED AS HEIGHT. IT SEEMS LIKE THEY'RE TWO DIFFERENT. 
          JUST TO MAKE SURE WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE WITH ED'S QUESTION. SO THE FENCE. YEAH. 
          IF YOU GO HERE, THE FENCE GOES TO THIS CORNER. CAN WE DROP IT DOWN HERE? CAN YOU COME UP HERE AND RUN AN EIGHT FOOT HIGH FENCE UP HERE? SOLID, BECAUSE THEY WERE ASKING FOR A WALL WHICH RETURNING DOWN TO HERE BEING NOTHING. AND MAKE THAT WHOLE FENCE ON THE BACK EIGHT FEET. 
          RIGHT HERE. DROP DOWN. YEAH. WHAT'S THE LANDSCAPING PLAN? YEAH, THEY COULD DO THAT. 
          THAT'S ALREADY GOING TO THE SOUTHERNMOST. IT COMES TO QUESTION IS THE TREES COME DOWN AROUND THE CORNER, I GUESS. WASN'T THIS A RESIDENTIAL LOT HERE? NO, NO, I DON'T THINK SO. 
          IT'S NOT. I THINK I HAVE POSSIBLY A SOLUTION. SO WE'D AGREE TO THE EIGHT FOOT HIGH FENCE ALONG, YOU KNOW, ON THAT PORTION OF THE EASTERLY PROPERTY LINE, AS MR. MILLER HAD RECOMMENDED, WE CAN CUT THE FENCE DOWN THE SOUTHERLY PROPERTY LINE. HOWEVER, AS FAR AS THE DISTANCE OF THAT FENCE, WE'D PREFER THAT IF AS A CONDITION OF APPROVAL, WE GET TO WORK WITH MR. KELLY TO MAKE SURE THAT HOWEVER FAR DOWN THE FENCE GO, IT DOESN'T IMPACT THE SITE DISTANCE OF CARS COMING ON 17 TO SEE OUR BUILDING, TO SEE OUR SIGNAGE. SO IF IT DOESN'T INTERRUPT THAT SITE VISIBILITY, WE'LL CONTINUE. LIKE, FOR INSTANCE, IF WE CAN GET DOWN TO THE END OF THE TRUCK. THE TRUCK CARRYING THE TRUCK CARRIER AND IT DOESN'T IMPACT OUR SITE 
          [01:35:02]
DISTANCE, OUR SITE DISTANCE OF THE SIGNAGE WILL AGREE TO IT. IT NEEDS TO BE AN ADDITIONAL FIVE FEET BACK. WE'LL AGREE TO THAT. IS THAT THAT WORKS? DOES DOES MIKE, DO YOU HAVE AN ISSUE WITH AN EIGHT FOOT FENCE OR DOES THAT. THAT'S FINE, I WOULD LET'S CUT IT OFF. IF YOU TAKE THE FRONT LINE OF THE BUILDING AND EXTEND THAT ALL THE WAY, THE FRONT FACADE OF THE BUILDING ALL THE WAY ACROSS, I WOULD STOP IT RIGHT THERE THIS WAY, A STRAIGHT LINE ACROSS THIS WAY. WE DON'T RUN INTO AN ISSUE WITH AN EIGHT FOOT HIGH FENCE IN THE FRONT YARD. ONLY A FOUR FOOT IS PERMITTED. LET'S JUST SO WE DON'T GET MIXED UP WITH THAT. THAT'LL BE KIND OF IN LINE WITH THE DETENTION BASIN OVER THERE. SO JUST TAKE THE FRONT LINE OF THE FACADE ALL THE WAY ACROSS, AND WE'LL STOP IT RIGHT THERE. AND THE FENCE WILL PUT ON THE INSIDE OF THE TREES. SO YOU'LL HAVE THE FENCE, TREES, SHRUBS. CORRECT. SO THAT THE TREES WOULD FACE THE, THE TREES ON THE SOUTH SIDE WOULD BE VISIBLE TO THE GAS STATION OVER THERE. THE FENCE WOULD BE INSIDE, I THINK IS THE QUESTION. DEFINITELY ALONG THE EAST SIDE, ALONG THE SOUTH SIDE, THEY HAVE A LOT OF TREES IN THE. CAN WE AGREE TO WORK ON THAT LOCATION WITH MR. KELLY? JUST. WE MAY WANT TO SEE SOME TREES LIKE, YOU KNOW, LIKE ON THE PROPERTY. SO LET'S WORK WITH MR. KELLY. OKAY? THAT'S FINE. YOU DON'T WANT TO MAKE IT. I DON'T WANT TO MAKE A HOLE. 
          YOU KNOW, I WANT TO HAVE IF WE CAN HAVE SOME LANDSCAPING, FRONTING ON THE PROPERTY WOULD BE NICE. SO. BUT WE'LL WORK WITH MR. KELLY ON THAT. SO THE BOARD WOULD, IN THE TOTALITY OF THEIR CONSIDERATION, IS NOW VOTING ON AN EIGHT FOOT FENCE, WHICH REQUIRES A VARIANCE. JUST I DON'T HAVE A LIST IN FRONT OF ME. BUT CONCEPTUALLY, THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS YOU'RE NOW CONSIDERING. OKAY. AND THAT WOULD BE ONE VARIANCE, MIKE, FOR BOTH SIDES. IT'S THE SAME VARIANCE. YEAH. YEP. OKAY. OKAY. THE MEETING IS STILL OPEN TO THE PUBLIC. IF ANYBODY ELSE WOULD LIKE TO COME UP AND MAKE ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS LIKE. DO I SAY MY NAME? YES. SAY YOUR NAME ONE MORE TIME. DEBORAH DE SOTO, DESOCIO14 BEEHIVE COURT. I WAS JUST AS FAR AS THE VARIANCES GO. I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT WORKS. WOULD IT MATTER? I MEAN, WOULD IT MATTER TO THE BOARD BECAUSE WE DON'T CARE IF THE FENCE IS 15FT LIKE I, AND I UNDERSTAND THEY WANT THEIR SIDE TO LOOK BEAUTIFUL AND I UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT WE DON'T WANT TO SEE CALMAC. SO IS THERE LIKE A PROBLEM WITH THE FENCE BEING LIKE REALLY HIGH? I MEAN, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE HIGH. 
          LIKE ON THE SIDE GOING UP THE RAMP. THERE'S NO PEOPLE THERE. SO I DON'T CARE IF IT'S LOW. SO PEOPLE COULD SEE, OH, THERE'S A CARMAX THERE. WE'RE CONCERNED OF WHAT WE SEE FROM OUR BACKYARDS. THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO ASK THE LIKE THE BOARD I DON'T. SO YOU'RE ASKING A HIGHER FENCE. LISTEN, YOU COULD GO ALL THE WAY UP TO AT SOME POINT. TRUST ME, THAT LOOKS YOU DON'T WANT THAT REALLY? LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE BACK TO THE HOOVER DAM. IT'S NOT AS DESIRABLE AS YOU THINK, BUT I DEFER TO THE BOARD AND CERTAINLY TO MIKE AS TO WHATEVER SUGGESTION MAKES SENSE. BUT LOOKING AT A VINYL WALL THAT'S EIGHT, TEN, OR 12FT HIGH ON TOP OF A SIX FOOT RETAINING WALL IS NOT THE CURE. THAT IT'S NOT AS GOOD AS IT SOUNDS. WE'RE NOT AGREEING TO A 15. WE'RE JUST NOT GOING TO AGREE TO IT. I MEAN, WE'RE TRYING TO GO ABOVE AND BEYOND, AND WE UNDERSTAND THAT THERE ARE RESIDENTS BEHIND BEHIND THIS PROPERTY, AND THEY DESERVE OUR ATTENTION, HOWEVER. THERE'S NOTHING WE COULD DO TO MAKE THIS INVISIBLE. THEY'RE GOING TO SEE IT IN SOME CAPACITY. AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE TRYING TO ALLEVIATE AS MUCH OF THAT AS POSSIBLE. BUT TO, TO, TO, TO MAKE THIS INVISIBLE, IT'S JUST THEY WOULD SEE IF IT WAS A GAS STATION, THEY WOULD SEE IT. IF IT WAS A CAR DEALERSHIP, THEY WOULD. AND HONESTLY, IN THE WINTER, TREES LOSE THEIR LEAVES. THAT'S JUST IT IS WHAT IT IS. I HATE THE WINTER I WAS DOWN IN LBI I'D RATHER IT BE SUNNY, SUNNY ALL THE TIME. BUT THAT'S JUST THE NATURE OF THINGS. AND YOU ARE PLANTING THE DECIDUOUS TREES. SO THE DECISION WILL. 
          YES WE ARE. AND THERE ARE STIPULATIONS IN MR. KELLY'S REPORT WITH REGARD TO BONDING FOR THE LANDSCAPING AND REPLACING LANDSCAPING THAT DIES, WHICH WE AGREED TO, WE STIMULATED TO. SO. SO WE WANT TO WORK WITH THE BOARD. BUT THERE COMES A POINT WHERE, YOU KNOW, OKAY, SO THE DEVIATION OR VARIANCE IS FOR AN EIGHT FOOT FENCE, CORRECT. LANDSCAPING AND FENCE LOCATION TO BE WORKED ON WITH MR. KELLY IN THE FIELD. SED IN COMBINATION, THE DOUBLE STAGGERED ROW, WHICH WE TALKED ABOUT AT A PRIOR MEETING, NOW ON TOP OF A BERM, WE GOT TO 
          [01:40:03]
MAKE SURE THAT THAT'S THAT COULD THAT COULD BE THAT COULD BE WORKED OUT IN SOME CAPACITY. 
          I THINK MR. CHAN AND MR. KELLY ARE GOING TO WORK ON SEEING IF THAT'S FEASIBLE. THAT'S CONCEPTUALLY WHAT EVERYONE IS LOOKING FOR. CORRECT. OKAY. AND THE EIGHT FOOT HIGH FENCE WOULD BE ON TOP OF THE BERM. NO, THE EIGHT FOOT HIGH FENCE IS GOING TO BE ON TOP OF THE RETAINING WALL. AND THEN NO, MOST OF THE BURNING IS GOING TO BE IN THE BUFFER AREA. THEY'RE REQUIRED TO HAVE A 25 FOOT BUFFER RIGHT ALONG THE EAST PROPERTY LINE. SO THAT'S WHERE ALL THE ANY BURNING OR ANY PLANTINGS ARE GOING TO GO TO SERVE AS A BUFFER. I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY DON'T PUT. WE'RE NOT TAKING DOWN TREES TO PUT IN A BERM. SO WE GOT TO SUPPLEMENT THE EXISTING VEGETATION THAT'S THERE WITH BERMS, PLANTINGS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. BUT THE THE FENCE WOULD BE ON THE HIGH SIDE OF THE RETAINING WALL. AND THEN WHEN THE RETAINING WALL STOPS, IT WILL CONTINUE TO CONTINUE SOUTH ALL BY ITSELF. YEAH. OKAY. JUST TO CLARIFY, FOR THE RECORD, WE'RE ASKING FOR A VARIANCE OF EIGHT FOOT FENCE. WE'RE SIX FOOT IS ALLOWED, CORRECT? CORRECT. IT'S JUST A TWO FOOT. CORRECT. AND MY EXPERIENCE, MY EXPERIENCE IN TOWN, I, I DON'T RECALL THE BOARD, THIS BOARD OR THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT APPROVING FENCES GREATER THAN EIGHT FOOT HIGH. THEY'VE EIGHT FOOT IS KIND OF THE MAX. JUST LIKE THE MAXIMUM SLOPE WE GO TO IS ONE ON THREE. SO I OF COURSE, WE'RE NOT SETTING A PRECEDENT IF WE DID GO HIGHER, BUT I WOULDN'T RECOMMEND GOING HIGHER. YEAH, IT'S NOT A CURE. FOR THE RECORD, YOU'RE OKAY WITH THE EIGHT FOOT AND YOU'RE OKAY WITH WORKING WITH HIM AND FIGURING OUT WHERE THE FENCE GOES AND ALL THAT JAZZ. YEAH. WE JUST. YES. OKAY. ANYTHING ELSE? OKAY. ALL RIGHT. ARE THERE ANY OTHER MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC THAT WANT TO TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO COME UP TO SPEAK, SEEING NO ONE QUESTIONS? NOTHING. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. DO I HAVE A MOTION TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC MOTION TO CLOSE SECOND. MEGAN AND GEORGE. ALL RIGHT. WE ARE NOW CLOSED TO THE PUBLIC. ALL RIGHT, CHAIRWOMAN, JUST REAL QUICK. AGAIN, THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION, YOUR PATIENCE, THE NEIGHBORS AS WELL. THANK YOU FOR THEIR COMMENTS TO, I THINK, HELP MAKE A VERY GOOD PROJECT EVEN BETTER. AGAIN, THE MOST PART, THIS IS A CONFORMING SITE. THERE ARE A COUPLE OF MINOR. 
          ONE REQUESTED VARIANCE FROM MEMBERS OF THE BOARD, BUT OTHERWISE ONE MINOR VARIANCE, A COUPLE OF WAIVERS. I THINK CARMAX DID A GREAT JOB OF TRYING TO DEVELOP THIS SITE IN KEEPING WITH THE TOWNSHIP'S ORDINANCES AND THE, THE GOALS OF THE THE GOALS SPECIFICALLY OF. FOR COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES THAT ABUT RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES, THEY MEET ALL THE STANDARDS THEY ACTUALLY EXCEED IN SOME CASES. AND WHAT I REITERATED WITH MR. RINGKAMP, WHICH WHICH I THINK IS VERY IMPORTANT WHEN YOU'RE ASKING FOR VARIANCES, ONE OF THE THINGS YOU TRY TO DO IS IMPLEMENT CONDITIONS TO ALLEVIATE THE SUBSTANTIAL DETRIMENT THAT THE VARIANCES COULD CAUSE. HERE, MY CLIENT DID THAT FOR ISSUES THAT WEREN'T DIDN'T REQUIRE VARIANCE RELIEF, MEANING THEY SAW THE RESIDENTS CONCERNS, THEY LISTENED TO THE RESIDENTS AND THE BOARD'S CONCERNS AND THINGS LIKE DELIVERIES. GIVEN THE NUMBER, THE TIMING, BUFFERING, LIGHTING. SIGNAGE, LIGHTING CONDITIONS WERE IMPLEMENTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS PROJECT ELIMINATES THAT SUBSTANTIAL DETRIMENT TO THE RESIDENTS IN THE IN THE REAR AGAIN, IS THIS IS THIS DEVELOPMENT GOING TO BE INVISIBLE TO THEM? IT IS NOT. 
          BUT I THINK WHAT WHAT MY CLIENTS DID WAS USE THE ORDINANCES, USE THE GOALS OF OF THE TOWNSHIP WITH THEIR MASTER PLAN AND THEIR ORDINANCES TO, TO DESIGN A PRETTY A GREAT USE, GREAT USE OF A PROPERTY THAT'S BEEN VACANT FOR A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF TIME. AND I RESPECTFULLY REQUEST THAT THE BOARD APPROVE THE APPLICATION AS SUBMITTED WITH THE CONDITIONS THAT WERE AGREED TO BY MY CLIENT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. 
          OKAY. DOES ANYBODY HAVE A FEELING OF MAYBE LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE? YES. RIGHT. 
          OH, OKAY. MOTION, MADAM CHAIRWOMAN, WITH ALL THE STIPULATIONS AND WITH THE VARIANCE ADDED TO THE APPLICATION. OKAY. I'LL SECOND. OKAY. TRACY AND GEORGE AND. 
          OKAY. ROLL CALL, MR. ERVIN. YES, MISS. YES. MISS. JANKOWSKI. YES. MISS. MICELI. YES. MR. MILLER. 
          YES. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. GOOD TO SEE YOU. I'D LIKE TO THANK THE BOARD FOR THEIR TIME. ENJOY WHAT'S LEFT OF YOUR SUMMER. OKAY. THANK YOU. YOU AS WELL. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. 
          THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. I THINK OUR LAST BIT OF BUSINESS IS ADJOURNMENT. CAN I HAVE A 
          [01:45:01]
MOTION TO ADJOURN? MOTION. OKAY. SECOND BY GEORGE. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. OKAY. MEETING IS
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.